Kirk, Artie and All,

Depending on one's personality type (among other things,) a person might
feel more compatible with one path than with another, although in effect
both paths seek the same goal. For instance, see
http://shivayoga.org/html/vitalpeculiarsolid.html
<http://shivayoga.org/html/vitalpeculiarsolid.html>  .

However, it's also a matter of objectives. If one is into achievement,
other paths may be more effective. For instance see:
(http://www.jewishachievement.com/domains/domains.html
<http://www.jewishachievement.com/domains/domains.html> )

Best wishes,

--ED



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, novelid...@... wrote:
>
Artie   Thank you, I am familiar with this poem.  Amazing poem, I
particularly like the second to last line, which for me brings the whole
experience the writer speaks of clearly into focus.     About 'lofty
class', well that could tell us much about your love for Zen, the
tradition.  At this point, deep Gasho, deep sigh, big smile . . . If
there are some that believe that Rumi is so lofty that he is in a class
alone, then they are holding empty views that cannot be supported by
anything but the shifting sands of the ego . . . When we speak of Tufu,
Rumi, Ryokan, HanShan, Hafiz we speak of them as brothers.   While we
have been talking about Sufism, since I am the one that holds dual
citizenship, let me be perfectly clear.  There is an old teaching method
that in order to understand the thing that is under our nose we have to
learn something else.  Perhaps, in my own humble manner, if that is so,
I can offer that here. If it becomes a distraction and leads to
defensiveness, well that might bring something as well for a time, but
only if it is useful.  Final note, I do consider myself more of a Zen
Buddhist, which is a convenience, a manner of expression, in terms of
practice and associations.  That has been my path.  However, I have been
interested in other things, sort of like a Gonzo
Anthropological/Sociological romp through secret orders and traditions
(someone has to do it!).  I am a traveler, a salik, just the way I am,
but I rely most often and most thoroughly on Zen.  So, we are all
brothers and sisters here.     Currently I have been spending time with
The Gurdjieff Foundation, so that is my most recent investigations.  I
won't go into it much here since it is too early, I have only been with
them around 4 years and not a great deal of time spent.  William Segal,
the artist, he practice Soto Zen Buddhism, knew DT Suzuki and others,
and taught in The Work.  There appears to incredible parallels between
Zen and Fourth Way practice, and no doubt The Foundation is modeled on,
shall we say Sufi/Hermetic Middle Eastern Schools.     So, that's my two
cents   Thanks for the poem.  Nothing more refreshing than short poems
and reminders of the path.     best wishes   --^--   Kirk

Daily, nothing particular,
Only nodding to myself,
Nothing to choose, nothing to discard.
No coming, no going,
No person in purple,
Blue mountains without a speck of dust.
I exercise occult and subtle power,
Chopping wood, carrying water.

Some attribute it to Baso, the Japanese haiku poet - some attribute it
to Mazu, the old Chinese chan master and teacher - and some attribute it
to P'ang Chu, a student of Mazu's.

I guess some think this is just a "zen platitude" and not in the same
lofty class as Rumi's poetry.

Artie




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