Are you a Christian? If not, you are speaking as an outsider. That simply does 
not represent the Christianity I've been exposed to.

The Bible is a complicated book compiled from many different sources who were 
trying to understand their world. I don't accept the idea of "is it the word of 
God or not?" I see representation of the divine in much literature.

If "anything gay is not mainstream in the mainstream," then why even bring it 
up as a criticism of Christianity? 

Again, I find you have created a false dichotomy between a narrow definition of 
Christianity and rejecting that. This is exactly what I feel I have to deal 
with elsewhere. I'm trying to be civil about this, but I don't know if I should 
keep arguing. But when you say Christians should "suck it up," and stay out of 
politics, or when you claim that thought is not encouraged by Christians,  I 
get rather upset.

I should point out that at their most extreme the "internet atheists" do not 
spare Buddhism, claiming it is, of all things, anti-intellectual.

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusub...@...> wrote:
>
> DP,
> 
> Is the Bible is the word of god - or not? My comments may be generalisations 
> to 
> you, but to me they are the key tenets/dogma of Christian faith. You say your 
> church ordains gay priests and is mainstream. That's great, but anything 
> 'gay' 
> is not even mainstream in the mainstream never mind within Christianity. 
> 
> 
> Mike 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: DP <wookielife...@...>
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, 2 October, 2010 12:21:25
> Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
> 
>   
> 
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> >
> > DP, 
> > 
> > Not sure how you could be personally "offended" by a criticism of theology. 
> > Actually, I think all this being 'offended' by religious folk is a bit rich 
> > coming from people who don't blink an eye to tell gays they're an 
> > abomination 
> >or 
> >
> > women who have abortions are murderers etc etc etc. Suck it up. I also 
> > think 
> >you 
> >
> > misunderstood me aout that survey. I don't think purported Christians can 
> > understand the intricacies of theology when they don't even know who 
> > delivered 
> 
> > the Sermon on the Mount. That indicates to me that Christians are told what 
> > theological dogmas to believe without much independant inquiry. To me 
> > that's 
> > dangerous especially they get into our schools and systems of government 
> > (hence 
> >
> > the topic headline above).
> 
> Wow, lots of generalization there. My church has ordained gay ministers for 
> almost 20 years. There is no official position on abortion. Again, they are 
> in 
> the mainstream, not a "liberal" church. I have read many books about theology 
> and find it quite interesting, and I don't think it's fair to dismiss it out 
> of 
> hand.. So pardon me, but yes, I am offended when people assume I'm a bigot 
> because of my beliefs. 
> 
> 
> Again, there have been many cases of progressive movements being led by 
> church 
> groups. Ever heard of the Berrigan brothers?
> 
> "Who did the Sermon On the Mount" wasn't one of the questions, btw.
> > 
> > Mike 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: DP <wookielifeday@>
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sat, 2 October, 2010 1:37:46
> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > DP,
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the reply. It's probably difficult, if not impossible, to keep 
> > > religion out of politics in the sense that politicians have personal 
> > > beliefs 
> 
> > > that may impact on their personal decision making. However, we in the 
> > > west 
> > > mostly live in secular societies and overt religious decisions should 
> > > stay 
> >the 
> >
> > 
> > > hell (excuse the pun) out of legislative decisions that affect all 
> > > citizens. 
> 
> > 
> > Well, I don't know how far that can go. People talk about taxing churches 
> > where 
> >
> > the ministers make overt political statements. Couldn't that have been used 
> > to 
> 
> > suppress Martin Luther King? As well, on the international scene and I 
> > think of 
> >
> > Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama, whose faith has sustained them. Dennis 
> >Kucinich 
> >
> > is another example of someone whose faith (Roman Catholic with a bit of 
> > existentialism thrown in) has resulted in progressive politics. the 
> > abolitionists were often religious (Quakers, etc). 
> > 
> > 
> > I object to your subject line, because in my (admittedly short) years as a 
> > church goer I have never, ever been told not to think. Quite the opposite, 
> > in 
> > fact. And it's not like I go to a small "new age Christian" church, but one 
> > of 
> 
> > the mainline churches in Canada.
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I'd also argue with you over the point about atheists knowing the answers 
> > > to 
> 
> > > a religious survey but not understanding the intricacies of 
> > > theology. If 
> > >someone 
> > >
> > > doesn't know who delivered the Sermon on the Mount they sure as hell 
> > > (there I 
> >
> > >go 
> > >
> > > again) don't understand the "intricacies" of theology. 
> > > 
> > > Mike.
> > > 
> > I'm more offended, to be honest, but putting "intricacies" in quotes. 
> > Theology 
> 
> > is quite a large and varied field. and that wasn't my point. My point was 
> > that 
> 
> > these people were gloating over "knowing more" (in fact, an average of 4 
> > questions more) than religious people, as if they had understood all of 
> >religion 
> >
> > better than all those who practise it. These were questions like "what 
> > religion 
> >
> > was Mother Theresa," and while it's shocking that many people didn't know 
> > that, 
> >
> > in terms of religion it's the equivalent of "what year did Columbus sail" 
> > is to 
> >
> > history.
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: DP <wookielifeday@>
> > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Fri, 1 October, 2010 23:16:46
> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] More about arguments and ego
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > Well, there are ways that politics and religion/spirituality intersect 
> > > that 
> >are 
> >
> > >
> > > (for me) fruitful and interesting. The debate over Obama's old minister, 
> > > for 
> 
> > > example, could have led to a mainstream introduction to Liberation 
> > > Theology. 
> >Or 
> >
> > >
> > > we could talk about "Creation Care," the Evangelical environmental 
> > > movement. 
> 
> > > Instead, there are constant threads about keeping religion out of 
> > > politics, 
> >and 
> >
> > >
> > > how atheists are smarter, more moral and more compassionate than 
> > > religious 
> > > people. The latest has been about how atheists did better than religiouis 
> > >people 
> > >
> > > on a quiz about religion. I thought the quiz was superficial, and that 
> > > just 
> > > because the atheists knew the answers they didn't know the intricacies of 
> > > theology. Of course, I was ridiculed for even arguing that theology was 
> > >complex.
> > > 
> > > So yes, some hurt feelings and envy over the people who have "the truth." 
> > > but 
> >
> > > also frustration because I think that it's our emphasis on materialism 
> > > (in 
> >all 
> >
> > 
> > > senses of the word) that causes a lot of the world's problems.
> > > 
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi DP,
> > > > 
> > > > Could you elaborate on this a bit more: "As well, I am frustrated that 
> > > > the 
> 
> > > > section of the political forum dedicated to religion is dominated by 
> > > > the 
> > > > atheists."
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Mike
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: DP <wookielifeday@>
> > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Fri, 1 October, 2010 7:58:28
> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] More about arguments and ego
> > > > 
> > > > ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > I appreciate your comments, and your story. That is strange, and yet 
> > > > not 
> > > > uncommon from what I've heard. OTOH, it's a valuable metaphor for how 
> > > > we 
> > > > experience the world. We ultimately really don't know. And perhaps what 
> > > > I 
> > >feel 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > is envy over their illusion of certainty (which they definitely present)
> > > > 
> > > > And yet another part of it is that I feel that some of the issues in 
> > > > the 
> > >world 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > (this is a political forum that I'm talking about) need a spiritual 
> > > > outlook 
> >
> > >as 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > well as a real world, material component. Certainly the idea of "there 
> > > > is 
> > > > nothing more to this world, and when you die that's it" seems to 
> > > > counter 
> >any 
> >
> > 
> > > > sense of hope for the future, at least in my opinion.
> > > > 
> > > > As well, I am frustrated that the section of the political forum 
> > > > dedicated 
> >to 
> >
> > >
> > > > religion is dominated by the atheists.
> > > > 
> > > > I guess if I *was* more secure in my beliefs I wouldn't let it bother 
> > > > me.
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain <healthyplay1@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > *bows to all*
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but after reading DP's 
> > > > > posts on 
> >
> > > >this, 
> > > >
> > > > >iÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  decided to share an 
> > > > >experience i am having right 
> >now..
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > To begin, I was struck when 
> > > > > youÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  wrote that what 
> >really bothers you 
> >
> > >is 
> > >
> > > >that 
> > > >
> > > > >people attack you aboutÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  what 
> > > > >the "truth" is when it 
> >comes to 
> >
> > >religion.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > >
> > > >I 
> > > >
> > > > >have said before here that, in my view, there really is no such thing 
> > > > >as 
> > >"the" 
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >truth or even "a" truth.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Its 
> > > > >simply one's perception 
> >of it--beit 
> >
> > >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ a 
> > >
> > > >person, 
> > > >
> > > > >idea, theologyÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  or 
> > > > >event.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  The need 
> >to be right or somehow 
> >
> > >prove that 
> > >
> > > >one 
> > > >
> > > > >person's perception is correct and therefore, another's is wrong, is 
> > > > >at 
> > > >theÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > >
> > > > >heart of our societal and global conflicts.
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > I think most of that is ego-driven, but to pretend or deny that 
> > > > > humans 
> > >don't 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > >have egos is equally 
> > > > >foolish.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Its okay to have 
> >opinions, beliefs, 
> >
> > >values 
> > >
> > > >and 
> > > >
> > > > >moral 
> > > > >constructs.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > I think the 
> >danger of egoÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  in 
> >
> > >this is when one 
> > >
> > > >insists 
> > > >
> > > > >their viewiint is the only correct 
> > > > >one.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > IÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ agree with Chris-- great 
> > > > > wisdom there when he 
> >suggests that when 
> >
> > >you do 
> > >
> > > >not 
> > > >
> > > > >respond to some flaming post or insult or complaint, you actually 
> > >demonstrate 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > >greater emotional maturity, and they are aware you maintain your 
> > > > >views, 
> >but 
> >
> > 
> > > >are 
> > > >
> > > > >now moving on to the more important matters of your real life.
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > I also agree with Bill.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > > Such 
> >mattersÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  cannot be analized 
> >
> > >in some 
> > >
> > > >logical 
> > > >
> > > > >frame.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  If you have faith-- 
> > > > >thenÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >logic has little to do 
> >
> > >with it, and 
> > >
> > > > >perhapsÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > >useÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >yourÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  faith that perhaps your 
> >message 
> >
> > >will resonate 
> > >
> > > >somehow via 
> > > >
> > > > >less tangible means.
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > Now, as I am now facing a problem that started with internet 
> > > > > discussion, 
> 
> > >but 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > >has now become a real life threat, 
> > > > >IÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  must caution 
> >others to beware 
> >
> > >those 
> > >
> > > > >on-line who indeed may have psychiatric buttons you do not want to 
> >inflame.
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > The man I've written about here who claims a lifetime of trauma , 
> > > > > abuse, 
> 
> > > > >tragedy and drama is at it again. 
> > > > >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  After calmly making 
> >it clear to 
> >
> > >him 
> > >
> > > >that I 
> > > >
> > > > >will no longer be a part of his self-created dramas, but 
> >wishÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  him 
> >
> > >well-- 
> > >
> > > >the 
> > > >
> > > > >followingÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ events have 
> > > > >unfolded..
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > I received an e-mail from a man claiming to be an ordained minister, 
> > >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ and 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > >friend of this man.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Telling 
> > > > >me that 
> >****ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  was in a serious 
> >
> > >car 
> > >
> > > >accidentÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  and 
> > > >
> > > > >has been taken to a local 
> > > > >hospital..ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Stating 
> >thatÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  the 
> >
> > >eventÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > >
> > > >details were 
> > > >
> > > > >still unclear, but reassuring me this man is 
> > > > >alive.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >Etc., 
> >
> > >etc..ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ He 
> > >
> > > >offers his 
> > > >
> > > > >e-mail if I have questions or concers.. as if I must certainly 
> >beÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >
> > > >anxiouslyÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > >
> > > > >awaiting any information on this tragic 
> > > > >event.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Certain that this is more of the same 
> > > > > IÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  do not reply 
> >or 
> >
> > >respond.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ For 
> > >
> > > >people 
> > > >
> > > > >with this type ofÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > >psychological disorder which is to a 
> >large 
> >
> > >degreeÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > >
> > > > >attention-seeking,ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  grandiose 
> > > > >ideation, and other 
> >symtoms.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >
> > >There is a 
> > >
> > > >bit of 
> > > >
> > > > >narcissisism, but his whole personality is more complex, and best left 
> > > > >to 
> >be 
> >
> > >
> > > > >diagnosed by medical professionals.
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > But I do know the worst thing you can do to such a person is ignore 
> > >them.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >Though it is the only appropriate and sane 
> > > > >respomseÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ or 
> 
> > >treatment.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > I received a second e-mail a day later stating that the car was 
> > > > > totally 
> > > > >destroyed, andÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  he had 
> > > > >retrieved the personal 
> >belongings (and cell 
> >
> > > >phone)ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  of 
> > > >
> > > > >our "friend", and encouraged me tio call him with support. He is being 
> > > > >transferred to another 
> > > > >hospital.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > 
> >Reminding me to keep jim 
> >
> > >in ourÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > >
> > > >heart and 
> > > >
> > > > >prayers. And soÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  and so on.
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > Again, I do not respond, and suspect 
> > > > > thatÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  the person 
> >writing the 
> >
> > >e-mails 
> > >
> > > >is 
> > > >
> > > > >indeedÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  my "friend" himself. 
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > This morning, i received a third e-mail from this minister friend of 
> > > > > the 
> 
> > > >man.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > >
> > > > >Starting out with telling me that the man in the hospital had 
> >toldÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >
> > >him a 
> > >
> > > >bit 
> > > >
> > > > >of what i said to him.. and could not believe how i could be so 
> > > > >horrible 
> >to 
> >
> > 
> > > >such 
> > > >
> > > > >a wonderful, decent, giving 
> > > > >manÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Etc., 
> >Etc.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  It escalated 
> >
> > >into a temper 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > >tantrum on-line with 
> > > > >capitalizedÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  angry retorts 
> > > > >and 
> > >profanity.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > >
> > > >(Ministers 
> > > >
> > > > >aren'tÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ what
> > > > > they used to be) 
> *sigh*
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > At this point, I know I'm dealing with a very unbalanced individual 
> > > > > who 
> >is 
> >
> > 
> > > > >indeed in psychic pain.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  But 
> > > > >this is out of my league. 
> >I care deeply 
> >
> > >about 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > >prople and ache for every child on the 
> > > > >globe.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ Not 
> >knowingÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >
> > >me, its 
> > >
> > > >hardÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  for 
> > > >
> > > > >anyone here to knowÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > >myÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >realÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ heart 
> >orÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >
> > >values. I am not being 
> > >
> > > >cruel,ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ I am 
> > > >
> > > > >doingÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  the right thing for 
> > > > >him and 
> >myself.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > This isÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  hard on two 
> > > > > levels.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> >First, thisÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  man is 
> >
> > >much "sicker" 
> > >
> > > >thanÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ I 
> > > >
> > > > >realized, and I am personally 
> > > > >afraid.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  He has my 
> >address.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I 
> >
> > >have 
> > >
> > > >blocked his 
> > > >
> > > > >numbers from my phones, and will keep all e-mails in a folder for 
> > > >evidence.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > >
> > > > >But this man does own firearms, is emotionally unstable 
> >andÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ I got 
> >
> > >into this 
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >mess by just trying to be a 
> > > > >friendÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  at an interfaith 
> >workshop and 
> >
> > > >discussion 
> > > >
> > > > >group.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > It is times like this thatÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > > having a family of 
> >attorneys is 
> >
> > >comforting. I 
> > >
> > > >have 
> > > >
> > > > >contacted friends who are MD's and a psychiatrist, and explained the 
> > > >events.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I 
> > > >
> > > > >just want to be left alone, and let the medical personnel where he is 
> > > > >sort 
> >
> > > >this 
> > > >
> > > > >out.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > BUT~~ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  what if its all a 
> > > > > lie? If he is seeing all 
> >these 
> >
> > >doctors,ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  they 
> > >
> > > >are 
> > > >
> > > > >going to pick 
> >upÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ onÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ this.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > But if he 
> >is just a 
> >
> > >neurotic man behind a 
> > >
> > > >computer 
> > > >
> > > > >screen, I have reason to fear.
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > My point is-- sheezus--ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > > take a 
> >breath.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Stand by your 
> >
> > >convictions if 
> > >
> > > >its 
> > > >
> > > > >important to you.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Let 
> > > > >go.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  The 
> >other option is surrender to 
> >
> > >listening 
> > >
> > > >to 
> > > >
> > > > >others views with a softened 
> > > > >heart.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  We all have the 
> >right to have 
> >
> > >our on 
> > >
> > > > >viewpoint, so long as it does not hurt self or others. Or maybe get a 
> > > > >new 
> 
> > > > >hobby:)
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > KristyÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > --- On Thu, 9/30/10, DP <wookielifeday@> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > From: DP <wookielifeday@>
> > > > > Subject: [Zen] More about arguments and ego
> > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Date: Thursday, September 30, 2010, 12:51 PM
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I've thought some more about my problrm with getting into arguments 
> > > > > on 
> >the 
> >
> > 
> > > > >internet. I think that the internet has fueled a certain type of 
> > > > >ugliness 
> >in 
> >
> > >
> > > > >arguments, with its tendency towards short comments that snipe at 
> >miniscule 
> >
> > 
> > > > >errors in one's posts. I want to walk away, and yet I hate the idea of 
> > > > >the 
> >
> > > > >bullies winning the argument.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I find that in religious discussions the "internet atheists" (a 
> > > > > specific 
> 
> > >term 
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >for these type of arguers, not all atheists) tend to crowd out people 
> > > > >who 
> 
> > >want 
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >to sincerely discuss religion on particular forums, so I get 
> > > > >frustrated. 
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > But here's where the ego comes in. Obviously, there is ego involved 
> > > > > in 
> > > >winning 
> > > >
> > > > >an argument, but there is also some ego in leaving. I feel like I'm 
> > > > >saying 
> >
> > > >"i'm 
> > > >
> > > > >taking my ball and going home."
> > > > > 
> > > > > As well, i'm very insecure about my beliefs, and I feel like I'm 
> > > > > somehow 
> 
> > >not 
> > >
> > > 
> > > > >worthy of my arguments. How does insecurity relate to ego, or is that 
> > > > >a 
> > > > >completely different question?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




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