Yes, I think it is similar to near death experiences. Difficult to explain, and 

--- On Tue, 5/10/10, Maria Lopez <> wrote:

From: Maria Lopez <>
Subject: Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.
Date: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010, 6:38 PM


It seems as you had a glimpse of what it means to be in the heart of everything 
while you were in comma.  These kind of experiences are difficult to be put 
into words, isn't it?.  Thanks a lot for sharing it with us.

--- On Tue, 5/10/10, Kristy McClain <> wrote:

From: Kristy McClain <>
Subject: Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.
Date: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010, 4:06


When I was 25, I had a serious car accident. My car went into a lake, and I 
essentially drowned.  The freezing temps saved my life by putting my body into 
a hypothermic state. Nevertheless, I was in a coma for nearly a month, and 
spent six months in a hospital. Discharge was only the beginning of rehab. My 
injuries  were primarilay in sensory perception--especially visual~ spatial 
perception.  There was also a period of time when my memory was almost like a 
blank slate.
There was a place or state of beingness then that was very much a state of 
instant enlightenment. A present, mindful awareness. A happy and loving heart.  
A feeling of inter-connection with the world that was  truly a state of grace. 
Yet my sensory abilities were poor.  My intellect allowed me to function and 
progress, but it began to detract from this beautiful awareness as I continued 
to re-gain skills, abilities and analytical functions.
I can tell you with every particle of my soul that there is a profound bliss in 
ignorance. My heart was open. I looked for the best in every action , person, 
or place~~ and found it.  I felt intuitively guided, and i have never been  
more joyous in my life.
My intellect actually help me lose all of this.  I only wish I had the courage  
back then to celebrate my experience.  My intellect told me to hide it from 
others.  To try to be just like others.  
Well-- I am now.  I've lost  all that as I fought my way back to just being a 
functional adult in society. I'm not happy these days.  
So.. I can't give you the recipe-- but I am saying that its more than sensory  
intake or intellectual output. There's a missing link there, in my experience.

--- On Mon, 10/4/10, Chris Austin-Lane <> wrote:

From: Chris Austin-Lane <>
Subject: Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.
Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 8:19 PM


When you swim well, your intelligence is not separate from your action, but 
indivisible. At that point the things you could think about swimming, things 
you read in books, are not necessary to think. The intelligence is there in the 
All these words about thoughts vs perceptions seem to have a viewpoint of 
analysis. To analyse without the view point of analysing, you swim, answer 
questions about swimming, give explanations of swimming, all without leaving 
the spot. 

On Oct 4, 2010 6:02 PM, <> wrote:

As usual I agree with some of what you say but not all.
The part I agree with is that zen is not anti anything.  I’d say if anything 
it’s anti-attachments.  I myself winced when I sent the post affirming that zen 
is anti-intellectual.  It’s not.

The part I disagree with you is about the role of intelligence in zen.  
Intelligence is not necessary to realize Buddha Mind, only sensory experience.

Intelligence (rationality) like all illusions can be benign.  The important 
thing is to discard your attachment to intelligence or any other illusion.  
Intelligence can be used, as you have said, to help orient you in the beginning 
- but it is not necessary.  You can gain information about most anything with 
your intelligence – like reading books or even listening to others talk. 
Intelligence can be used to learn to swim or ride a bike.  You can get a 
general idea of what it is you are supposed to do, but to actually swim you 
have to get into the water or onto the bike and throw the book away.  What you 
have learned using your intelligence might help you then, or it might hinder 
you.  These are functions your body has to learn, not your rational mind. 
It’s the same with zen.  

From: [] On Behalf Of 
Edgar Owen
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 4:53 PM 

To: zen_fo...@yahoogroups.comsubject: Re: [Zen] Bible, God, etc. 

Nonsense. Zen is not anti anything except perhaps illusion. 


Intelligence is absolutely necess...

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