Siska,

 

The terms ‘kensho’, ‘satori’ and ‘enlightenment’ all mean the same thing – and 
as ZEN MIND BEGINNER’S MIND says these are not important.

 

We are all already ‘enlightened’ and perfect just as we are; but our 
discriminating, rational mind creates illusions – such as the dualistic concept 
that there is a ‘self’ which is different and apart from all else.  This is the 
dualistic concept of self/other.  This self forms attachments, and these 
attachments are the cause of suffering.  This is the basic teaching of Buddhism.

 

In order to get rid of suffering we need to get rid of the concept of self.  In 
order to get rid of the concept of self we need to stop it from being created 
by the discriminating mind, and we do that we need to halt its functioning.  
When the discriminating mind no longer functions we are no longer living in a 
illusory world (samsara), we awake to a world of direct, sensory experience.  
When illusions disappear Buddha Nature is revealed.  It was there all the time 
but was occluded by illusions.

 

You don’t go ‘in and out’ of this state ‘at will’.  As you continue to practice 
zen you are able to reintroduce the discriminating mind, illusions and all, but 
because you now recognize these as illusions you do not form attachments to 
them.

 

…Bill!

 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
siska_...@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 7:03 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

 

  

Hi Bill,

Whenever I came across the terms satori and kensho, I thought they were about 
'enlightenment', but never really knew what they were. Now I know the 
difference, thanks to you.

The preface of Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind says satori is not important, that is 
why the book says nothing about it. From where I stand now, it seems that the 
state of 'no mind, happens just like that. It happens when it happens, not 
really related to anything that this 'self' do and it is beyond our control, 
whether it happens in retreats or in daily activities.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I get the impression that with zazen, we would 
be able to enter and leave this state of mind at our will. It would be a 'sweet 
treat' to be able to do so.

Thanks for your replies Bill, I'd really like to know more.

siska

  _____  

From: <billsm...@hhs1963.org> 

Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:18:49 +0700

To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 

Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

 

  

Siska,

This is what all zen teaching is about - getting to that state of 'no mind'. 
Japanese Zen Buddhism has terms for this state. The first 'glimpse' of 'no 
mind' or 'no self' or 'Buddha Mind' is called 'kensho'. It comes unexpectedly 
and lasts only a brief time. This may be the experiences you described in your 
post below.

As you continue zen practice you may experience some very intense versions of 
this called 'satori'. After kensho and satori your continued zen practice will 
deepen and lengthen this state, and eventually integrate it into your everyday 
life (or perhaps its more accurate to say you will integrate your everyday life 
into Buddha Mind. Eventually you can even re-integrate intellectualizations in 
Buddha Mind.

How do you do this?, you asked. As I said above, this is what zen teaching is 
about. The direct answer to your question is zazen. More indirect methods are 
koan study, chanting, bowing, washing dishes, mowing the lawn...anything done 
with your full attention and focus can be your zen practice and can lead to 
this state.

...Bill! 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>  
[mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> ] On 
Behalf Of Siska
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:02 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

Hi Bill,

Thanks for taking time to explain.

> When someone has 'awakened' they are opened up to direct experience. This is 
> done by shutting down your discriminating, rational mind which is usually 
> always busy filtering, augmenting, categorizing, judging, etc... experiences. 

My experience so far has been the rational mind can be absence, especially 
during sitting or other time, but this mostly happens unexpected, out of 
sudden. I have no idea it can be shut down at will. How do you do that? Will I 
be able to do that if I do zen meditation?

siska

--- On Thu, 28/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>  
<billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> > wrote:

From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>  
<billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> >
Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
Date: Thursday, 28 October, 2010, 7:31

Siska,

I purposefully did not jump right in and answer your question about Buddha. I 
knew there'd be plenty of others who would respond to that. But, your comments 
in the attached post prompt me to respond.

Buddha does mean 'the awakened one' in Sanskrit - at least that's what I've 
been told. It's also a title when used in someone's name - like Siddhartha 
Gautama Buddha.

When someone has 'awakened' they are opened up to direct experience. This is 
done by shutting down your discriminating, rational mind which is usually 
always busy filtering, augmenting, categorizing, judging, etc... experiences. 
The 'awakening' part would be akin to someone who has been living in a dream 
(samsara, a world of illusions) but has now awakened.

...Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>  
[mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> ] On 
Behalf Of siska_...@yahoo.com <mailto:siska_cen%40yahoo.com> 
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:03 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

Hi Ed, Bill,

I just remember reading somewhere, long time ago that Buddha literally means 
the awakened one. If I google the term for definition, I'd probably find 
something like this too (among others), which means that Buddha is the one who 
is awakened instead of direct experience.

So I think I'm going to skip all the definitions and allow this mind to 
perceive whatever is when reading your posts. Sound like a lot more fun :-)

siska
________________________________________
From: <billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> > 
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>  
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:25:33 +0700
To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> >
ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>  
Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

Ed,

‘One’ does not experience Buddha.

The term ‘Buddha’ and ‘direct experience’ are the same thing. Buddha is
direct experience.

‘One’ (self) is not present.

…Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>  
[mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> ] On 
Behalf
Of ED
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 1:03 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

Whatever one experiences 'Buddha' to be.
--ED

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> , 
<billsm...@...> wrote:
>
> Ed,
> 
> Your question: "What on earth is not an illusion?" is what zen is all
about!
> 
> All thoughts and concepts of the discriminating mind (the rational mind
that
> creates dualisms such as self/other, subject/object and makes judgments
such
> as good/bad, right/wrong) are illusions.
> 
> Only direct experience is not illusory. 'Direct' means before the
> experience goes through the discriminating mind and gets processed there
> (filtered, augmented, named, categorized, assigned a value, etc...). Zen
> Buddhism calls this 'Buddha Mind' or 'Buddha Nature'. Joshu called it 'Mu'
> and 'The Oak Tree in the Garden'. Ummon called it 'A Dried Shit-Stick'.
> Gutei just held up his index finger. I call it 'Just THIS!'.
> 
> So I now ask you: What is Buddha?
> 
> ...Bill!

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