Hi JMJM,

Can you please tell me more about this sutra?

siska
-----Original Message-----
From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
 <chan.j...@gmail.com>
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 09:23:54 
To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

  Hi Siska,

That quote I posted was how it was in the sutra, the exact words are, 
"Dharma is in the secular world, Buddha is awakened from the secular world."

Due to our ego, usually majority of us consider every day events are not 
perfectly desirable.  That's perhaps the reason for the sutra to verse 
it this way.  Buddhists usually parallel the secular world to the mud of 
a lotus, and lotus signifies the awakening, or Buddha.

That's how Buddhist usually say, "Respect the mud, absorb from the mud, 
cultivate the lotus."

Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org


On 10/30/2010 7:58 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> > Enlightenment is reached from every day life...
>
> Not: "every day life IS enlightenment"?
>
> siska
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: * Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@gmail.com>
> *Sender: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> *Date: *Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:22:01 -0700
> *To: *<Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
> *ReplyTo: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine
>
> Indeed, Bill.
>
> If I may add to this very important basics..
>
> The key to "eventually integrate it into everyday life" is NOT after 
> we reach kensho or satori, but rather practice to drop our 
> "discriminating mind" for all instances occurring at every moment in 
> our daily life.  And do it with harmonious and compassionate heart.  
> Meaning to live with pure heart without judgment or question or 
> suspicion from our limited knowledge or experience.
>
> Then we will be able to realize the wisdom/truth for every 
> occurrence.  Thus we are able to manage our lives with wisdom.  This 
> is labeled as "liberation", or "detachment from all forms".
>
> Sutra stated very clearly, "dharma is everyday life. Enlightenment is 
> reached from every day life..."
>
> Thank you for your attention
>
> JMJM
> Head Teacher
> Order of Buddha Heart
>
> Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> http://www.heartchan.org
>
> On 10/29/2010 3:18 AM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
>>
>> Siska,
>>
>> This is what all zen teaching is about - getting to that state of 'no 
>> mind'. Japanese Zen Buddhism has terms for this state. The first 
>> 'glimpse' of 'no mind' or 'no self' or 'Buddha Mind' is called 
>> 'kensho'. It comes unexpectedly and lasts only a brief time. This may 
>> be the experiences you described in your post below.
>>
>> As you continue zen practice you may experience some very intense 
>> versions of this called 'satori'. After kensho and satori your 
>> continued zen practice will deepen and lengthen this state, and 
>> eventually integrate it into your everyday life (or perhaps its more 
>> accurate to say you will integrate your everyday life into Buddha 
>> Mind. Eventually you can even re-integrate intellectualizations in 
>> Buddha Mind.
>>
>> How do you do this?, you asked. As I said above, this is what zen 
>> teaching is about. The direct answer to your question is zazen. More 
>> indirect methods are koan study, chanting, bowing, washing dishes, 
>> mowing the lawn...anything done with your full attention and focus 
>> can be your zen practice and can lead to this state.
>>
>> ...Bill!
>>
>> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
>> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Siska
>> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:02 PM
>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine
>>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> Thanks for taking time to explain.
>>
>> > When someone has 'awakened' they are opened up to direct 
>> experience. This is done by shutting down your discriminating, 
>> rational mind which is usually always busy filtering, augmenting, 
>> categorizing, judging, etc... experiences.
>>
>> My experience so far has been the rational mind can be absence, 
>> especially during sitting or other time, but this mostly happens 
>> unexpected, out of sudden. I have no idea it can be shut down at 
>> will. How do you do that? Will I be able to do that if I do zen 
>> meditation?
>>
>> siska
>>
>> --- On Thu, 28/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org 
>> <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> <billsm...@hhs1963.org 
>> <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>> wrote:
>>
>> From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> 
>> <billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>>
>> Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine
>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Thursday, 28 October, 2010, 7:31
>>
>> Siska,
>>
>> I purposefully did not jump right in and answer your question about 
>> Buddha. I knew there'd be plenty of others who would respond to that. 
>> But, your comments in the attached post prompt me to respond.
>>
>> Buddha does mean 'the awakened one' in Sanskrit - at least that's 
>> what I've been told. It's also a title when used in someone's name - 
>> like Siddhartha Gautama Buddha.
>>
>> When someone has 'awakened' they are opened up to direct experience. 
>> This is done by shutting down your discriminating, rational mind 
>> which is usually always busy filtering, augmenting, categorizing, 
>> judging, etc... experiences. The 'awakening' part would be akin to 
>> someone who has been living in a dream (samsara, a world of 
>> illusions) but has now awakened.
>>
>> ...Bill!
>>
>> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
>> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of 
>> siska_...@yahoo.com <mailto:siska_cen%40yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:03 PM
>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine
>>
>> Hi Ed, Bill,
>>
>> I just remember reading somewhere, long time ago that Buddha 
>> literally means the awakened one. If I google the term for 
>> definition, I'd probably find something like this too (among others), 
>> which means that Buddha is the one who is awakened instead of direct 
>> experience.
>>
>> So I think I'm going to skip all the definitions and allow this mind 
>> to perceive whatever is when reading your posts. Sound like a lot 
>> more fun :-)
>>
>> siska
>> ________________________________________
>> From: <billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>>
>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:25:33 +0700
>> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>>
>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine
>>
>> Ed,
>>
>> ‘One’ does not experience Buddha.
>>
>> The term ‘Buddha’ and ‘direct experience’ are the same thing. Buddha is
>> direct experience.
>>
>> ‘One’ (self) is not present.
>>
>> …Bill!
>>
>> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
>> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
>> Of ED
>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 1:03 AM
>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine
>>
>> Whatever one experiences 'Buddha' to be.
>> --ED
>>
>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, <billsm...@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ed,
>> >
>> > Your question: "What on earth is not an illusion?" is what zen is all
>> about!
>> >
>> > All thoughts and concepts of the discriminating mind (the rational mind
>> that
>> > creates dualisms such as self/other, subject/object and makes judgments
>> such
>> > as good/bad, right/wrong) are illusions.
>> >
>> > Only direct experience is not illusory. 'Direct' means before the
>> > experience goes through the discriminating mind and gets processed 
>> there
>> > (filtered, augmented, named, categorized, assigned a value, 
>> etc...). Zen
>> > Buddhism calls this 'Buddha Mind' or 'Buddha Nature'. Joshu called 
>> it 'Mu'
>> > and 'The Oak Tree in the Garden'. Ummon called it 'A Dried Shit-Stick'.
>> > Gutei just held up his index finger. I call it 'Just THIS!'.
>> >
>> > So I now ask you: What is Buddha?
>> >
>> > ...Bill!
>>
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> 

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