Ed and Kristy,

First of all I do want to echo Kristy’s first point which she phrased as a 
question.  I too would much rather ED (or anyone who posts) tell us your 
opinion on something.  Second best (but still acceptable) is for you to first 
express your opinion and then back it up with a reference to someone else.  I 
think the worst case is when you just post a URL to someone else’s opinion.  
You may think this is a way to pass information in a neutral manner, but it is 
second-hand information, and information on which there can be no interactive 
discussion with the originator of the opinion.

Usually I don’t even go to links if there it is not there to support something 
else in the post; but I did go to this one and looked at about the first 2 
minutes of the video.

So secondly I must adamantly disagree with Genpo on the dynamics of a zen 
teacher-student relationship.  He described it as a necessarily hierarchical 
relationship: the teacher (roshi) higher than the student.  He used an example 
a water system were the Dharma was the water, the roshi was the faucet and the 
student was an empty cup.  The dynamics of the relationship were that the 
Dharma necessarily flowed through the teacher to the student.  This is 
absolutely incorrect.

The dynamics and relationships are not hierarchical, they are horizontal or 
parallel.  Using the water system analogy, BOTH the teacher and the student 
comprise the complete water system.  The are both the water source, the pipes 
and the faucet.  Presumably the teacher has experience in turning on the faucet 
and accessing the water, and the student does not.  The teacher can only 
demonstrate how he/she accesses the water and make some suggestions.  The 
student must learn how to turn on the faucet for himself.

The point is that Dharma does not flow THROUGH the teacher to the student.  If 
that’s the relationship Genpo believes is necessary and that he demands, then 
he has strayed very far from the teachings of Maezumi Roshi.

I will direct you to a link which will fully support my position on this.  To 
access the link you only need to sit quietly and count your breathes.


From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Kristy McClain
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 4:06 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] The Teacher-Student Relationship: Genpo Roshi & Andrew Cohen

So do you have a comment about this?
To amplify my comment to Bill.  When I watched Genpo say  this to  a student, I 
do not believe he was saying this in such a way as to confront the student with 
his own reality, a.k.a. "tough love".  Gempo was visably irritated, and his 
body language, tone of voice and entire behavior indicated that he, himself,  
had simply lost control.  As for Andrew Cohen,  frankly-- I cannot understand 
this guy.  He can talk non-stop for hours.  My ears hurt when  starts rambling 
on and on with what I perceive as psycho-spiritual-intelli-babble.  Hailed as 
brilliant,  I cannot understand most of what he says.
I do understand the point of this video, but I can't see Jack Kornfield, TNH, 
Cheryl Hubbard and so on, behaving this way.  But perhaps it is also telling to 
note that this is a teaching style I avoided as not right for  me.

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Zen] The Teacher-Student Relationship: Genpo Roshi & Andrew Cohen
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 1:21 PM
The Teacher-Student Relationship: Genpo Roshi & Andrew Cohen 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VsnVFVF2Xs  (8:44)

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature 
database 5627 (20101117) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature 
database 5627 (20101117) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.



Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

Reply via email to