--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:
>
> ED,

> I have no alternate views on koan practice than those expressed in the
article below that are significant.

> The slight differences I hold are:



> > [Genjo] Koans should only be used after one's meditation has entered
some
Samadhi.


> [Bill!] There are koans called `breakthrough' koans that can
and are used to
INDUCE Samadhi. Examples of those are `Mu', `One Hand
Clapping', `Face
Before Your Mother Was Born'. The majority of koans however are used
AFTER
Samadhi to help fully integrate and enable the actualization of
experience
into everyday life.

[ED] Genjo's position appears to be similar to or the same as Dr James
Austin's, namely that Samadhi is a state of absortion/tranquility or
Jhana state attained prior to kensho-satori. According to Genjo, koans
are effective (or more effective) in making a breakthrough to
kensho-satori from the Samadhi state. See:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/message/21501
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/message/21501>



> > [Genjo] To understand a Koan with your rational mind is only the
beginning;
to understand the koan fully through and through, with every fiber of
your
being, is just a good start.


>  [Bill!] Understanding has absolutely nothing to do with responding to
a
koan.

[ED] Genjo is almost certainly using 'understanding' in the sense of
'responding appropriately' - unless his 45 years of practice is
illusory.



I hadn't ever heard of koans being grouped into the 5 groups that
Genjo
suggests. I liked those groupings, but as he himself said, "... any
number
of sub-divisions could be devised, and all are ultimately meaningless, a
koan is just a koan."

Â…Bill!



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