Hi, Anthony

If you like to have a good time thinking, take notice that old testament begins 
with "Elohim".
Elohim is the plural of Elohi (God).
So, it begins by "The Gods..."

Food for though

With best wishes

Lluís
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anthony Wu 
  To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 9:42 PM
  Subject: RE: [Zen] The BBC on Zen


    
        Bill,

        You say, " I also have a belief that the experience of Buddha
        Mind is THE basic religious experience as described by most all 
religions -
        especially Christianity with which I am most familiar."

        Please give me good examples. 

        Among those that run counter to the belief is Christian faith in 
personalized God, reward and punishment by that God, and his ability to 
'absolve' sinners. Let alone the God described in the Old Testament, who 
ordered killing and torturing.

        Anthony

        --- On Sat, 4/12/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> 
wrote:


          From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
          Subject: RE: [Zen] The BBC on Zen
          To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 10:27 AM


            
          ED,

          My responses are embedded below:

          [ED] Bill, from whom did you first learn of the existence of two 
separate
          entities, 'zen' and 'Zen' (Zen Buddhism)?
          [Bill!] I discovered that myself, although I might have received a 
hint of
          this from my first teacher (Koryu Roshi) was a lay roshi from the 
Japanese
          Zen Buddhist Rinzai tradition who deemphasized the importance of 
taking
          vows. There are also a lot of references in traditional zen 
literature that
          could be interpreted to support this: 'If you meet the Buddha on the 
road,
          kill him', tales of Buddhist scholars that burned their books after 
becoming
          enlightened, the constant use of everyday objects and activities 
rather than
          religious objects and activities by ancient zen masters when asked 
about
          Buddha Mind. Now of course I probably read into those what I want to 
hear
          to support my belief. I also have a belief that the experience of 
Buddha
          Mind is THE basic religious experience as described by most all 
religions -
          especially Christianity with which I am most familiar. If this 
experience
          is universal then it is not exclusively Buddhist. I think it is 
universal
          and it is just expressed in different cultures and societies using the
          language they have available. This is why I say Zen Buddhism is a 
Buddhist
          expression of zen. 

          [ED]Are the centres established by Maezumi, Shunryu Suzuki, Joshu 
Sazaki and
          other Japanese Teachers 'zen' centers or 'Zen Buddhist' centers?
          [Bill!] The Zen Center of Los Angeles (ZCLA) established by Maezumi 
Roshi
          and the several satellite centers are Zen Buddhist centers. I can't 
speak
          to the other roshi's centers but I'd expect them to be Zen Buddhist 
centers.

          ...Bill!


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