Lluis,
 
Thank God you have found an excuse. So it is another God that ordered killing 
and torturing. The real one has always been kindhearted. 
 
Anthony

--- On Sun, 5/12/10, Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es> wrote:


From: Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es>
Subject: Re: [Zen] The BBC on Zen
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 5 December, 2010, 5:37 AM


  



 
Hi, Anthony
 
If you like to have a good time thinking, take notice that old testament begins 
with "Elohim".
Elohim is the plural of Elohi (God).
So, it begins by "The Gods..."
 
Food for though
 
With best wishes
 
Lluís

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Anthony Wu 
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: [Zen] The BBC on Zen

  






Bill,
 
You say, " I also have a belief that the experience of Buddha
Mind is THE basic religious experience as described by most all religions -
especially Christianity with which I am most familiar."
 
Please give me good examples. 
 
Among those that run counter to the belief is Christian faith in personalized 
God, reward and punishment by that God, and his ability to 'absolve' sinners. 
Let alone the God described in the Old Testament, who ordered killing and 
torturing.
 
Anthony

--- On Sat, 4/12/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:


From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] The BBC on Zen
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 10:27 AM


  

ED,

My responses are embedded below:

[ED] Bill, from whom did you first learn of the existence of two separate
entities, 'zen' and 'Zen' (Zen Buddhism)?
[Bill!] I discovered that myself, although I might have received a hint of
this from my first teacher (Koryu Roshi) was a lay roshi from the Japanese
Zen Buddhist Rinzai tradition who deemphasized the importance of taking
vows. There are also a lot of references in traditional zen literature that
could be interpreted to support this: 'If you meet the Buddha on the road,
kill him', tales of Buddhist scholars that burned their books after becoming
enlightened, the constant use of everyday objects and activities rather than
religious objects and activities by ancient zen masters when asked about
Buddha Mind. Now of course I probably read into those what I want to hear
to support my belief. I also have a belief that the experience of Buddha
Mind is THE basic religious experience as described by most all religions -
especially Christianity with which I am most familiar. If this experience
is universal then it is not exclusively Buddhist. I think it is universal
and it is just expressed in different cultures and societies using the
language they have available. This is why I say Zen Buddhism is a Buddhist
expression of zen. 

[ED]Are the centres established by Maezumi, Shunryu Suzuki, Joshu Sazaki and
other Japanese Teachers 'zen' centers or 'Zen Buddhist' centers?
[Bill!] The Zen Center of Los Angeles (ZCLA) established by Maezumi Roshi
and the several satellite centers are Zen Buddhist centers. I can't speak
to the other roshi's centers but I'd expect them to be Zen Buddhist centers.

...Bill!


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