Hi, Anthony I just said that Old Testament begins with "Elohim", that is the plural of "Elohi".
I do not judge. You said the rest. With best wishes Lluís ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Wu To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [Zen] The BBC on Zen Lluis, Thank God you have found an excuse. So it is another God that ordered killing and torturing. The real one has always been kindhearted. Anthony --- On Sun, 5/12/10, Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es> wrote: From: Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es> Subject: Re: [Zen] The BBC on Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 5 December, 2010, 5:37 AM Hi, Anthony If you like to have a good time thinking, take notice that old testament begins with "Elohim". Elohim is the plural of Elohi (God). So, it begins by "The Gods..." Food for though With best wishes Lluís ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Wu To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: RE: [Zen] The BBC on Zen Bill, You say, " I also have a belief that the experience of Buddha Mind is THE basic religious experience as described by most all religions - especially Christianity with which I am most familiar." Please give me good examples. Among those that run counter to the belief is Christian faith in personalized God, reward and punishment by that God, and his ability to 'absolve' sinners. Let alone the God described in the Old Testament, who ordered killing and torturing. Anthony --- On Sat, 4/12/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> Subject: RE: [Zen] The BBC on Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 10:27 AM ED, My responses are embedded below: [ED] Bill, from whom did you first learn of the existence of two separate entities, 'zen' and 'Zen' (Zen Buddhism)? [Bill!] I discovered that myself, although I might have received a hint of this from my first teacher (Koryu Roshi) was a lay roshi from the Japanese Zen Buddhist Rinzai tradition who deemphasized the importance of taking vows. There are also a lot of references in traditional zen literature that could be interpreted to support this: 'If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him', tales of Buddhist scholars that burned their books after becoming enlightened, the constant use of everyday objects and activities rather than religious objects and activities by ancient zen masters when asked about Buddha Mind. Now of course I probably read into those what I want to hear to support my belief. I also have a belief that the experience of Buddha Mind is THE basic religious experience as described by most all religions - especially Christianity with which I am most familiar. If this experience is universal then it is not exclusively Buddhist. I think it is universal and it is just expressed in different cultures and societies using the language they have available. This is why I say Zen Buddhism is a Buddhist expression of zen. [ED]Are the centres established by Maezumi, Shunryu Suzuki, Joshu Sazaki and other Japanese Teachers 'zen' centers or 'Zen Buddhist' centers? [Bill!] The Zen Center of Los Angeles (ZCLA) established by Maezumi Roshi and the several satellite centers are Zen Buddhist centers. I can't speak to the other roshi's centers but I'd expect them to be Zen Buddhist centers. ...Bill! __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5672 (20101203) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com