Hi, Anthony

I just said that Old Testament begins with "Elohim", that is the plural of 
"Elohi".

I do not judge.
You said the rest.

With best wishes

Lluís
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anthony Wu 
  To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 12:32 AM
  Subject: Re: [Zen] The BBC on Zen


    
        Lluis,

        Thank God you have found an excuse. So it is another God that ordered 
killing and torturing. The real one has always been kindhearted. 

        Anthony

        --- On Sun, 5/12/10, Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es> wrote:


          From: Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es>
          Subject: Re: [Zen] The BBC on Zen
          To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, 5 December, 2010, 5:37 AM


            
           
          Hi, Anthony

          If you like to have a good time thinking, take notice that old 
testament begins with "Elohim".
          Elohim is the plural of Elohi (God).
          So, it begins by "The Gods..."

          Food for though

          With best wishes

          Lluís
            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Anthony Wu 
            To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
            Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 9:42 PM
            Subject: RE: [Zen] The BBC on Zen


              
                  Bill,

                  You say, " I also have a belief that the experience of Buddha
                  Mind is THE basic religious experience as described by most 
all religions -
                  especially Christianity with which I am most familiar."

                  Please give me good examples. 

                  Among those that run counter to the belief is Christian faith 
in personalized God, reward and punishment by that God, and his ability to 
'absolve' sinners. Let alone the God described in the Old Testament, who 
ordered killing and torturing.

                  Anthony

                  --- On Sat, 4/12/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org 
<billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:


                    From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
                    Subject: RE: [Zen] The BBC on Zen
                    To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 10:27 AM


                      
                    ED,

                    My responses are embedded below:

                    [ED] Bill, from whom did you first learn of the existence 
of two separate
                    entities, 'zen' and 'Zen' (Zen Buddhism)?
                    [Bill!] I discovered that myself, although I might have 
received a hint of
                    this from my first teacher (Koryu Roshi) was a lay roshi 
from the Japanese
                    Zen Buddhist Rinzai tradition who deemphasized the 
importance of taking
                    vows. There are also a lot of references in traditional zen 
literature that
                    could be interpreted to support this: 'If you meet the 
Buddha on the road,
                    kill him', tales of Buddhist scholars that burned their 
books after becoming
                    enlightened, the constant use of everyday objects and 
activities rather than
                    religious objects and activities by ancient zen masters 
when asked about
                    Buddha Mind. Now of course I probably read into those what 
I want to hear
                    to support my belief. I also have a belief that the 
experience of Buddha
                    Mind is THE basic religious experience as described by most 
all religions -
                    especially Christianity with which I am most familiar. If 
this experience
                    is universal then it is not exclusively Buddhist. I think 
it is universal
                    and it is just expressed in different cultures and 
societies using the
                    language they have available. This is why I say Zen 
Buddhism is a Buddhist
                    expression of zen. 

                    [ED]Are the centres established by Maezumi, Shunryu Suzuki, 
Joshu Sazaki and
                    other Japanese Teachers 'zen' centers or 'Zen Buddhist' 
centers?
                    [Bill!] The Zen Center of Los Angeles (ZCLA) established by 
Maezumi Roshi
                    and the several satellite centers are Zen Buddhist centers. 
I can't speak
                    to the other roshi's centers but I'd expect them to be Zen 
Buddhist centers.

                    ...Bill!


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