Anthony and Chris,

I don’t hold anything against science for trying to explain or understand 
religion, but I don’t consider zen a religion (although zen does have lots of 
instances where a religion has been built up around it – like Buddhism or 
Christianity).  I just believe using science or logic to try to understand zen 
is useless.  It’s like trying to ‘figure out’ a koan.  Some ‘figuring out’ can 
be done, or seem to be done, but in the end it’s all in vain.

…Bill!



From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Anthony Wu
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 6:55 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  
Chris,
 
I don't see any 'religionization'. On the contrary, he tries to use materialism 
to explain something relating to religion. Or to explain metaphysical events.
 
Anthony

--- On Mon, 6/12/10, ChrisAustinLane <ch...@austin-lane.net> wrote:

From: ChrisAustinLane <ch...@austin-lane.net>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, 6 December, 2010, 12:23 AM
  
It is not even particularly good science. I think it may be a good example of 
what Mayka and Bill were talking about the religionizatipn of science. 


Thanks, 
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone

On Dec 4, 2010, at 13:08, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
ED,
 
I listened 10 minutes. Up to that point, it has been very materialistic, and as 
Mike say, left out the 'soul'. It is very scientific, and not for one with a 
view of anti-science. We have a long way to go to complete the journey of 
science. Or will it be 'completed' at all?
 
Anthony

--- On Sat, 4/12/10, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 12:16 PM
  
ED,
 
Very interesting video on many different levels - the penny dropped a number of 
times re my own thoughts and experiences. I was surprised he left out the 'long 
dark night of the soul' in his presentation tho. 
Thanks, 
Mike
 

________________________________________
From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 4 December, 2010 0:00:46
Subject: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  
 
Recommendation: 
Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
choices.  
--ED
 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final liberation
1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in neurotheology 
developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), Todd Murphy 
(inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) explores the brain's 
role in enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The talk also looks at the 
self (or sense of self), and how it's place as a brain function allows it to be 
flexible enough to change as a person becomes enlightened. It examines a few 
case histories, including those of Ramana Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, 
The Buddha, and some others.
 
 
 






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