Hi Chris - I enjoyed the talk and will probably watch some of his other talks. 
I've read some of the work by Joseph LeDoux (and have an interested in fear and 
the fear response) and so anything vaguely neuroscience appeals to me on an 
amateur level, esp when it attempts to add meditation into the mix. I like 
reading about the work of Richard Davidson and Matthieu Ricard - scanning the 
brains of practiced meditators etc - seeing what they think they can see. I'm 
not looking for anything definitive, it's just interesting on some level. I'm 
not really looking to label any of it as science or non-science. 

Incidentally, the guy in the talk is trying to sell products (on another 
website), some sort of wave producing head device, $650+ depending on which 
version you buy. I won't be asking Father Xmas for one, I'd be too scared to 
try one! :)

Rose

--- On Mon, 12/6/10, ChrisAustinLane <ch...@austin-lane.net> wrote:

From: ChrisAustinLane <ch...@austin-lane.net>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "<Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 2:48 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      If the video had been Dr. Austin I would have been pleased. This guy 
seems to been in the lab of the guy that tries to use magnetic radiation to 
induce visions of god in people. As science it seems sort of mediocre, though 
suggestive, though unreplicable to date. 



Really though, I just can't respect anyone that locates arousal or relaxation 
with places rather than states of a system. 



If this is your only exposure to neuro-anatomy, that seems like it would not be 
enough to start to make sense of a pretty complicated topic.



But the hand-wavy sciency explanations do emotionally engage people; I suspect 
ED's pleasure is the speakers goal. 



And I see a lot in the current day of people plastering on a few words and 
details from science, to increase the plausibility of their presentation 
without having the core of the scientific approach or understanding. As a 
material system, the brain is astoundingly complex. Anyone speaking of it from 
the perspective of understanding it scientifically will just relate a few 
interesting tid bits of data in a soup of we don't know this, and more 
investigation is needed here and so on. Humility is the hallmark of 
neuroscientists right now. 



Thanks,

Chris Austin-Lane

Sent from a cell phone



On Dec 5, 2010, at 15:18, <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:



> Anthony and Chris,

> 

> I don’t hold anything against science for trying to explain or understand 
> religion, but I don’t consider zen a religion (although zen does have lots of 
> instances where a religion has been built up around it – like Buddhism or 
> Christianity).  I just believe using science or logic to try to understand 
> zen is useless.  It’s like trying to ‘figure out’ a koan.  Some ‘figuring 
> out’ can be done, or seem to be done, but in the end it’s all in vain.

> 

> …Bill!

> 

> 

> 

> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
> Of Anthony Wu

> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 6:55 AM

> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

> 

> 

> Chris,

> 

> I don't see any 'religionization'. On the contrary, he tries to use 
> materialism to explain something relating to religion. Or to explain 
> metaphysical events.

> 

> Anthony

> 

> --- On Mon, 6/12/10, ChrisAustinLane <ch...@austin-lane.net> wrote:

> 

> From: ChrisAustinLane <ch...@austin-lane.net>

> Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

> To: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>

> Cc: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>

> Date: Monday, 6 December, 2010, 12:23 AM

> 

> It is not even particularly good science. I think it may be a good example of 
> what Mayka and Bill were talking about the religionizatipn of science. 

> 

> 

> Thanks, 

> Chris Austin-Lane

> Sent from a cell phone

> 

> On Dec 4, 2010, at 13:08, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:

> ED,

> 

> I listened 10 minutes. Up to that point, it has been very materialistic, and 
> as Mike say, left out the 'soul'. It is very scientific, and not for one with 
> a view of anti-science. We have a long way to go to complete the journey of 
> science. Or will it be 'completed' at all?

> 

> Anthony

> 

> --- On Sat, 4/12/10, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> 

> From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk>

> Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 12:16 PM

> 

> ED,

> 

> Very interesting video on many different levels - the penny dropped a number 
> of times re my own thoughts and experiences. I was surprised he left out the 
> 'long dark night of the soul' in his presentation tho. 

> Thanks, 

> Mike

> 

> 

> ________________________________________

> From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>

> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Sat, 4 December, 2010 0:00:46

> Subject: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

> 

> 

> 

> Recommendation: 

> Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
> choices.  

> --ED

> 

> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#

> Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final 
> liberation

> 1:39:08 - 2 years ago 

> Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
> enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in 
> neurotheology developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), 
> Todd Murphy (inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) 
> explores the brain's role in enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The 
> talk also looks at the self (or sense of self), and how it's place as a brain 
> function allows it to be flexible enough to change as a person becomes 
> enlightened. It examines a few case histories, including those of Ramana 
> Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, The Buddha, and some others.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

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> 

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> 

> 

> ------------------------------------

> 

> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

> 

> 

> 



    
     

    
    


 



  






      

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