ED: Why forget about pride and the Self?

MEL: That is what they teach(without specifics) in Zen which the general 
population can accept, or reject. Each and everything in this world we live in 
is never a 'self' as such because it's identity and environment constantly goes 
through changes over time...and so there's no Self to hold onto. How can you 
have pride when there's no Self to own?
ED:  No, but most of us are not aware of what these values are, as they
are mostly hidden from ourselves.

MEL: It all depends on what values and/or objectives anyone speaks of. If it's 
a belief in the One and Holy Father where everyone and everything(nourishment, 
teachings, resources, etc) comes from, then yes, not everyone will know of 
this. Zen resources on the other hand, had never spoken of such 

ED: So, articulating them to oneself can
be a form of awareness practice.

MEL: Yes, of course. Conservative Buddhists chant sutras and the like, and it 
helps them remember their teachings as well as follow correct breathing 
methods. Basic Zen practise however, may play a different tune especially in 
solitary practise

Articulating it to oneself is often something that just happens automatically 
with many an individual out of habit before, during, or after the act, but it's 
necessity or not is for the individual to decide. Whilst this may be part of 
this dualistic Semitic culture one may speak of, Zen on the other hand 
persuades against it...because there is no permanence anywhere


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