ED and all other nonZen members, I looked at the dialogues below and I wouldn't 
be surprised if Bill had been somewhat bewildered by the line of questioning

1. In Zen, there are a lot of unspoken teachings which many who follow don't 
habitually articulate. One reason for this is because it prevents the seekers 
from attaching to actual instructions to the last letter. To have such 
instructions implanted in somenone's brain could end in disaster if such 
teachings are ever applied to everything and anything without discernment

Everyone can deny it all they like, but WE ALL just love specific instructions 
and directions...as if we're still children who can't possibly be left to our 
own devices. And here comes along something called Zen, which allows not only 
much freedom, but also maturity

2. Satori/Kensho/Whatever is nothing more than a by-product of constant 
zazen(seated meditation) practise. According to monk Shunryu Suzuki, it has 
been said that this 'satori' as such was experienced by the Buddha, but which 
was not permanent and therefore never absolute, irrespective of what the 
dictionary says of the meaning of the word. This means that suffering as such 
for a human being comes at any time, and no enlightenment will prevent future 
heartbreaks from taking place in the future. Dualistic thinking is indeed very 
hard to get away from, but I'm not one to question Suzuki-sensei's knowledge. 
I've never been a monk, but he was

3. There will always be this unavoidable misunderstanding between academics and 
the actual Zen followers. Those who have the Zen teachings burning within them 
actually go through the experiences that academics are merely reading, or 
speculating about. Reading about it(Zen) and intellectualizing all the contents 
are not enough and will never be enough, which is why the 2 sides I now speak 
of will look like they're both speaking to each other in 2 different languages 
everytime there's an exchange

To the academics and others who love to 'research' Zen...without the 
experience, you'll end up with nothing but all sorts of assumptions and 
imaginations. It doesn't make your positions in relation to Zen somewhat 
lesser. There's no talk here of superiority, or inferiority. 
Academics/researchers are as they are, as are Zen followers within their own 
realms

4. Besides the academics/researchers, I will now also speak of other curious 
'watchers', as such. Many outside of the Zen realms have this thing about 
Buddhism such as....

- it is so lovely and peaceful(until Buddhist monks in Japan and Korea are seen 
on national TV news burning down each other's temples, with people inside them)

- a beautiful religion that teaches love and peace(yep, watch 'em burnin' 
temples)

- the sutras and chants are so lovely and magnificent, so I'll do them as well 
so I can also become Buddhist(*giggles*..so funny!)

- I want all this satori/kensho/whatever, then I can be some sort of super 
being who knows everything(*Mel shakes his head in disbelief*)

- Hey, how do you get satori?(*Mel just fainted in disbelief*)

Dissecting Zen or enlightenment under a microscope doesn't work. I'm sure the 
academic questions and statements(not only here, but everywhere else on or 
offline) are sincere and well-meant, but I personally don't know how far they 
will get as far as full understanding of Zen are concerned. But then again, 
perhaps people are just as happy making assumptions, which is also fine if that 
works for them

just my thoughts
Mel  

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <seacrofter...@...> wrote:
 
> If for simplicity heterosexuals only are considered, it is the opposite
> sex.
 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:

> What 'other sex'? ...Bill!
 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" seacrofter001@ wrote:

> Will experiencing kensho-satori affect a zenist's deep inner
> relationship to the other sex?

> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote:
>
> Buddhism and Sexism Can There Be Buddhist Gender Equality?




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