ED, "Benefit" sounds to me like a favourable acquiring of something, so I don't think the question would make sense to a person in that 'state' (I'm assuming you're talking about a fully awakened person?).
Mike ________________________________ From: ED <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 24 March, 2011 5:16:42 Subject: [Zen] Re: Add Nothing Extra Mike, My question is simple and impersonal: What is the benefit to himself/herself or others of a person arriving at such a state? --ED --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:> ED, Haha, "So what?", indeed! I guess being on a Zen chat forum might have something to do with talking about it tho : ) I respect that some people are more 'Stevie Nicks' about keeping their crystal visions to themselves, but for me, if someone asks I'll try to give as honest an answer as I can. If I'm doing a hatchet job of answering those questions then, I can only hope that people respect that I'm doing the best with the tools that I have. Mike Mike and Mayka, Whatever the experience you have that you refer to as your realization of, or experiencing of, or awakening to Buddha Nature, Buddha Mind, wisdom-insight or kensho-satori, so what? --ED ED, I may be wrong here, but you still seem to think of 'Buddha Nature' in terms of something that has qualities 'out there' that can be experienced and known if we just follow certain steps (whether zazen, reason or science etc) 'Buddha Nature (or whatever) is not something that is attained, gained or even experienced (but 'experienced' is ok if we understand there is no 'I' for an experience to happen to). In fact, it's more about dropping/losing than adding/finding. 'Kensho'/'satori' are just rough pointers, 'tools' if you like, that symbolise a 'state' where our sense of 'I' has been dropped and duality has been transcended (Dogen's 'dropping of body and mind' is the best description IMO). This 'state' is impossible to be conveyed by words/logic although it can be hinted at. How this is done depends on the idiosyncronies/personality of the person expressing it and so will always be different from person to person. Thus Mayka's method of conveying what she has 'experienced' will be different to Bill's. How this 'experience' has been further cultivated and intergrated into one's daily living will also have a bearing on how it is expressed. The feeling I get on this forum is that some people have being practicing Zen for some time, doing all the 'right' things, going to sesshins, reading lots of material etc. but have yet to 'experience' that 'experience' that turns the conceptual world upside down and so feel (maybe subconsciously) they have to knock (or hint at) other people's insights as just woo-woo or delusional. Just saying. Mike ED; Budha nature is beyond any form and therefore the buddha nature Bill talks about is the same I'm referring to. The form of the words are only like a finger pointing to the moon. Knowing how to enter into the buddha nature doesn't mean in anyway that one is at all time into the wave of buddha nature. This requires years of training. At times live in a monastery. Attending retreats to have a good boost... Living in the present moment in body and mind is not an easy task at all times. But it doesn't mean in anyway being unable to have taste what is buddha nature about. It's enough to practice mindfulness and buddha nature can started to gradually unfold by itself. This is an endless experience of awakening. It's not an static experience. When buddha nature is absented in me is because I allow myself be drag down back by forgetfulness, habit energies, ego....and so goes for everybody else. Mayka
