ED, All of these are attempts to desribe the CONCEPT of kensho/satori. These help you RATIONALIZE and become more comfortable with this concept. HOWEVER, like I said in a prior post referring to the 'generic product labelling', these are suitible for desribing the CONCEPT of kensho/satori but should NEVER be confused for the real thing. The concept of kensho/satori is not kensho/satori. It is a concept that is formed (presumably) sometime AFTER the author has experienced kensho/satori - or at least heard about or read about someone else's experience. They are useful in talking about the CONCEPT of kensho/satori, but not about the experience itself.
We have LOTS and LOTS of quotes from those who have experienced kensho/satori that describe EXACTLY what is is: "Mu!", "Dried Shit on a Stick", "The Oak Tree in the Garden", and Gutei's finger held aloft. Why do you keep looking for more? Please refer to a quote from the great American philopher Rodney King: "The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things." ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > Consider this except from: "Zen-Brain Reflections" By Dr. James H. > Austin: > > Chapter 81, page 360 - 361 > > "More useful Descritions of the Other Qualities of Kensho-Satori > > Over the centuries, Buddhist school have since found ways to articulate > major qualities of kensho-satori. > > In their old Sino-Japanese phrases we can discover concepts like > eternity, suchness, nonduality, liberation and so on. > > When translated, the following words and short phrases can still help > puzzled readers who may wonder what is so special about this state of > insight-wisdom. > > [Four of the 11 phrases are below.] > > 4. Fusho fumetsu: neither arising nor perishing. The ultimate reality > of things is a static quality. > > 7. Honpusho: originally not produced. In the inactivity of ultimate > reality, nothing comes into existence and nothing disappears. > > 9. Mui jinen: the as-it-isness of absolute reality; things as they > really are, beyond all change > > 10. Shinyo: true suchness; unchanging reality" > > Do you have any hints or comments on these four statements for us? > > Thanks, ED > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > The concept of buddha nature is born when you are born and dies when > you die...Bill! > > > > > > > Is buddha nature born with a human, and expire when he/she expires? > > > > > > --ED > > > > > > > > All things and non-things are born and die. > > > > > > > > In fact 'you' are the one who gives birth to both things and > > > non-things, and it is you that eventually kills them. In the absence > of > > > 'you' there is neither things nor non-things, nor birth/death. > > > > > > > > Just THIS! > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "ED" seacrofter001@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What non-thing is not born and does not die? > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
