JMJM, Thanks for your advice.
I don't often have pain when I sit, in fact I could say I NEVER have real pain anymore. Sometimes I do experience a little discomfort and then I do what I described in a previous post. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > Hi Bill and Mike, > > In our school, an effective sitting is the foundation to everything. > That's sort of the only thing we are somewhat adamant about. If I may > share with you some of the witnesses that I have from a few hundred > cases in California. > > When we have pain, (not the bone fracture kind of pain, just the tendon, > muscle kind), meanings our inner chi is trying to find new passages. > When we focus and be one with it, the pain will diminish in time, > because when we focus on it, instead of resisting it, we are applying > our chi to it. Sort of acupuncture there with our mind instead of a > needle. I call that "soft-acupuncture". :-) > > We have many people began their practice with us, initially with lower > back pain, sciatica, pain from spinal surgery, etc. All healed after a > few months of sitting. Chi is our innate life force that energize > itself wherever it was blocked. > > Check this one out, please http://www.chanliving.org/pain.html > > Since a few years ago, Bill has regarded Chi based sitting as illusory > by his mind. If you could open your heart and welcomes all advice > regardless of your judgmental mind, your pain probably already subsided > by now. > > I love you, Bill, you know. I hope you can open up your heart and stop > walk a certain path. Each path, though is not perfect, has its own merit. > > :-) > > Learn to de-stress, energize and awaken > http://www.chan-meditation.com > Learn to live with Health, Happiness and Harmony > http://www.chanliving.org > Learn to reach enlightenment > http://www.heartchan.org > To save the world > http://www.universal-oneness.org > > > > On 6/1/2011 11:00 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > Mike, > > > > You can tough it out if you want. I'll wave the white flag. > > > > IMO physical pain is your body telling you that something is wrong. I > > try to listen to my body when it speaks. > > > > My approach to this is NOT what I was taught in my Japanese Zen > > Buddhist training. They also thought you ought to tough it out. I did > > that then, HOO-AH!, but I'm over that now. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill!, > > > >I never try to 'sit through' pain in my legs or back... Usually > > pain in the legs or back is do to bad sitting posture... > > > > > > I disagree. Usually pain in the legs, hips, back, shoulders etc. is > > merely another word for 'discomfort' induced by sitting in one > > position and not brought on by anything serious. You could have the > > suppleness of a yogi or ballerina and still experience 'pain' from > > sitting for an hour - in contrast to the very real pain caused by > > something more serious. Vipassana meditation encourages you to face > > that discomfort and gain insight into the impermanence of that > > pain/discomfort and how our body/mind reactes to it (usually > > aversion). Or you could just wave a white flag to it ; ) à Hooah! > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > To: [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, 2 June 2011, 9:48 > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism > > > > > > > > > à > > > Mike, > > > > > > Nice try but my attachment to my zafu is via my butt and not my > > discriminating mind. I don't contemplate the various attributes of my > > zafu while sitting. Like, 'What is it that keeps me off the floor?'. > > > > > > In sesshins (Japanese Zen Buddhist meditation retreats)I have sat as > > long as 40 mins periods, and even up to 60 mins occasionally when the > > > time-keeper goes to sleep. > > > > > > I never try to 'sit through' pain in my legs or back. I will make > > some adjustments to try to alleviate the pain and continue sitting, > > but if that fails I'll just get up, walk around a little and then > > return to sitting. Usually pain in the legs or back is do to bad > > sitting posture so I make sure my posture is correct when I return to > > sitting. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill!, > > > > > > > > So it's safe to say you have no attacments to where or how you > > sit, other than what is comfortable at that particular time? Same with > > the jhanas. They take you deeper into your meditation and help to make > > the session last longer (much like discovering a zafu that fits your > > bum correctly ;) But they are not essential. There are warnings > > aplenty in the literature I've read against becoming attached to them > > just like anything else (at the risk of becoming a 'bliss-bunny'). > > > > > > > > > > > > I usually time my sittings between 40-60 mins depending on how > > busy I am. If I have time I'll do this twice a day, but at least once > > in the evening. I usually sit cross-legged, but will sometimes sit > > Burmese style. If I'm feeling that the session is going well (in a > > vipassana sense), but the pain is becoming too distracting, then I'll > > stay mindful of my movements, but change to a more comfortable > > position. However, the 40-60 min session is usually done with no > > movement or changing of position whatsoever (I wasn't kidding when I > > said vipassana is the SAS of meditation sessions!).Ãâà > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > > To: [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 1 June 2011, 16:08 > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâà > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > > At home I have a zafu and zabuton. My zafu is x-large to > > accomodate my x-large butt. I sit cross-legged now. I used to sit in a > > half-lotus but never could really manage a full-lotus. I eventually > > found the half-lotus to put me into a little bit of a tilt so I now > > just sit cross-legged, and switch the top and bottom leg occasionally > > when I remember to do so. I usually sit for 3-consequtive 20-minute > > periods with a 5-minute break in between to get up and stretch, walk > > around or go to the toliet. > > > > > > > > When I travel I just stuff a pillow between my legs and sit in a > > kneeling position; or if that doesn't work I just sit on a firm chair > > (wood is best), sitting on the front edge with my back straight and > > not leaning against the chair. > > > > > > > > How about you? > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Bill!, > > > > > > > > > > >or (IMO) ATTACHMENT to jhanas. > > > > > > > > > > Do you usually use a zafu/mat etc. to sit zazen, or do you just > > sit wherever? > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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