Edgar: What do you observe and What do you observe with?. ... That is the illusion!. But not:: Mu, where is the mind when there is no mind to observe?. When the experience occurs in the present moment there is no time left for an observation as one has to choose at those moments of living the experience as it is as a non separation between the present moment and one, in a way that one is the present moment itself or to use the mind for its observations. It's in the use of the mind activity that illusion occurs but not in the experience free from mind which is expressed with the koan "Mu". Not sure if this is explaining well. Mayka
--- On Thu, 18/8/11, Edgar Owen <[email protected]> wrote: From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Form vs Formless Practice To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Date: Thursday, 18 August, 2011, 13:46 The problem with the Diamond Sutra's 'everything is as it is' is realizing what is actually is. Things are NOT as they appear to be because reality is always filtered through human nature to the human observer. It takes a deep understanding to see through this illusion. Though much of this illusion can be seen through, much simply cannot be. Of that part we simply have to realize that that illusion seen as illusion is reality. Illusion is how things are. Everything is as it is is illusion. Illusion is the fundamental nature of reality. Because every living being always has to experience reality through its own nature as observer, the reality of every living being is always illusion. The illusion of the world seen by particular observers is reality. The best we can do is to actually realize and experience the illusion of reality as illusion and the reality of illusion as reality directly. Anything else is just fooling ourselves. Edgar On Aug 17, 2011, at 4:46 PM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote: Dear All, Diamond Sutra continues to remind us that everything is as is, no matter how we label, analyze, describe, tear it apart, or look under a microscope. It was trying to tell us that.... This is the practice in form. This practice is connected with our five senses and consciousness, or the seven consciousness. No matter how we practice in form, we will never surpass the influence of the eighth consciousness, which is our subconsciousness, or what we called karma in Buddhism. Many of us may recall, the intuitive notions arising from within, usually are wrestled with our logical mind, self doubt, insecurity, emotions, past experiences, etc. etc. When we are under the gun, we usually resort our decision to our habitual ones. More often than not we regret that we are victimized by ourselves again. Often these notion wrestling occurs within a short instance, and usually in that split second, our lives are changed forever. This is the power of karmic influence. In other words, relying on all seven consciousness is fine as long as we have no life changing decision to make. The important practice is the practice in the formless, or the practice of "no mind", no knowledge, no experience, no all seven consciousness, or no form. Or you may call this practice the practice of pure spirit, pure heart, pure energy. Only through this formless practice can we eliminate the karma in our eighth consciousness. Then you may ask, "how do we function with no mind after we get up from the cushion." Yes, critically important question. The anwser lies in "the synchronization with the wisdom of the universe at that moment". Everything is manifested by the universe, all we have to do is to "ask" it. It will tell us. But then how to "ask"? Develop enough Qi then synchronize our Qi with that of the universe. Is there another way? For many years, I have stressed the importance of a "right practice". Only through the right cultivation of our internal Qi, can we surpass our physical hindrance, than our mental hindrance, then our inner spirit can shine through. Chan practice is a complete practice integrating our body, mind and spirit. And only through our heart can we integrate all three. After all, two out of the three, our spirit and our physical connection, are in our heart. How do you feel love or joy or energy? Otherwise, we just continue to live within our mind without awakening. In other words, as soon as we started to think, we fall back into our own dream constructed by ourselves. There are not much time left. JMJM Head Instructor Order Of Chan -- Learn the Basics of Chan Meditation... http://www.chan-meditation.org Chan in everyday life... http://www.chanliving.org To be enlightened in this life... http://www.heartchan.org To save our world... http://www.universal-oneness.org
