Bill; ...So what he basically says is: EMPTY YOUR BOWL!. More zen couldn't be. Mayka
--- On Fri, 2/9/11, Maria Lopez <[email protected]> wrote: From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Words attempting to describe experiences. To: [email protected] Date: Friday, 2 September, 2011, 18:33 Bill: I don't completely agree with your saying about Master Gudo Nishima explaining a kind of psychotherapy away from zen. The way I sense and understand his talk is that he considers that often we repress what we don't like very much. And that repression gets store into the unconscious. Once into the unconscious that will give way to all that ideas, images, sensations over external objects our mind and body respond. So in order to bring to the conscious mind that he says during zazen the mind is like a pot in which one takes it off the lid to let them to evaporate. He didn't say to look into causes, or mention the four noble truths or anything like that. His point was to allow all that that is stored in the unconscious being emerge over the surface. And that is very much zen practice to me because he's dealing with what is emerging and not only he's dealing with that but also let that be as it comes as the lid of the pot is left opened and evaporates in the sky. Mayka --- On Fri, 2/9/11, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote: From: Bill! <[email protected]> Subject: [Zen] Re: Words attempting to describe experiences. To: [email protected] Date: Friday, 2 September, 2011, 10:43 Mayka, IMO when Zen Master Gudo Nishima is talking about 'the unconscious and repressed ideas' he's practicing a kind of phychotherapy and not zen. It's true that you must get rid of all these things (clean your bowls) before you'll be able to realize Buddha Nature clearly, but HOW you do that is not a specific part of zen practice. I want to stress again that this is just my opinion. Obviously anything you do which leads you to realize Buddha Nature could certainly be considered zen practice, but in my experience just sitting zazen, and TRYING to sit shikantaza (clear mind meditation), or working on koans require (and enable) you to clean out all these areas anyway. As I said in an earlier post the dividing of your sentient ability into 5 categories (the 5 senses) is not important. There is only one sentient ability and the manifestation of that is Buddha Nature. You can divide them up into as many categories as you wish. That's what our dicriminating mind does for a living, and it's very, very good at it. I don't recognize 'unconsciousness' as a sentient ability. I know many do. I only recognize what you could classify as 'physical senses' as sentient ability. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> wrote: > > Bill: >  > Right. Thank Bill.  I know where are you getting at. And agree. >  > However, question wasn't refering to past experiences brought back to the > present moment in a way that one recreates,dwell, getting entangled > on it. >  > Watching a video various times by Soto Zen Master Gudo Nishima talking > about the unconscious and repressed ideas, images..., he doesn't call that > illusion but allowing the unconscious to emerge with all of that.  I > Like the comparation he makes about the mind be a pot and to take the lid > off while in zazen and so allowing in that way all that we have supressed > to evaporate in the sky.  >  > Paste the video. I can tell for the simplicity of this man that he's > a great Zen Master. Really like him. I wish I could find a Teacher like > this one. > http://youtu.be/W21GIhTgEo4 >  > As a response of a conversation going on about the senses, I'd like to point > it out to you, Anthony and Edgar that there not only five senses but six. > The sixth sense is the unconscious. >  > Mayka >  >  >  > --- On Thu, 1/9/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Words attempting to describe experiences. > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, 1 September, 2011, 2:46 > > >  > > > > Makya, > > I consider all such things as memories illusory. They are not real. They are > at best case your mind's effort to reproduce some experience you've had, and > at worst case something distored or completely made up. > > The past is just memories - illusions. The future is just speculation - > illusions. There is only the present. Just Here and just Now. > > That is my best attempt to communicate my experience...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: > > > > Bill: > >  > > What about our recorded past memories brought back to the present moment > > and bringing with them odours, sensations, images, conversations.....Would > > that be considered a real or illusion experience in the present moment? > >  > > Mayka > >  > > --- On Wed, 31/8/11, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Words attempting to describe experiences. > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Wednesday, 31 August, 2011, 1:51 > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > One may indeed call it anything one pleases, but fantasizing about being > > able to read people's lineage and seeing into the future is delusion in my > > book. > > > > It's not experience, it's intellection. Experience, at least the way I > > define it, is provided through the senses, not the intellect. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill,Anthony - > > > > > > One may call it anything one pleases, but it is an experience; whether > > > this experience is real or delusionary is a subjective judgment call. I > > > think the Buddha was credited with possessing such-like powers. > > > > > > --ED > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Anthony, > > > > > > > > I would call that delusion...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > How do you explain the following: Looking into faces, I see > > > something of the long chain of their past existence, and sometimes > > > something of the future. > > > > > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > >
