Bill!, I honestly see your point, and happy you obviously read my post past just the "bored with Christianity" line. I can see that to argue terminology with someone who follows Jesus's teaching (the Old Testament is just sick) is to throw the proverbial (!) baby out with the bath water. To segue Zen/zen in with his teachings seems a more constructive thing to do than just outright negate (thanks for that one, Kris).
Mike ________________________________ From: Bill! <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 8 August 2012, 2:21 Subject: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen Mike, I was raised a Christian and most of my friends were too. Some of them are now fundamentalist Christians, some once-a-week Christians and some have discarded their Christian ties entirely and become agnostics or adopted some other religion. Only a very few are what I would consider to be 'true' Christians. I do use quotes from the Bible and other historical texts, usually direct quotes attributed to Jesus, to illustrate what I think is the synchronicity between Jesus and zen. I admit I 'cherry-pick' these, but offer no apology for that. I think if nothing else quotes like this are useful in conveying zen teachings to an audience more used to hearing things like this talked about in Christian-like terms. Again, I think words do matter - at least in the beginning...Bill! --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Bill!, > > Thanks for the heads up, but to be honest I've become completely bored of > this whole Christianity thing. I've learnt enough during this past week not > to knock it, but it is just superfluous to my journey at this moment. I do > now, however, feel better equipped to be able to engage in a conversation > about the deeper aspects of Jesus' putative message and the parallels with > Zen (amongst other religions). I still feel there is more for me to learn > about life in eating a bar of chocolate (I'm not being facetious) than > trawling thru 1000s of pages of text. Appreciated tho. > > Mike > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2012, 8:19 > Subject: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen > > >  > Mike, > > Christianity doesn't teach that Jesus came to CHANGE the Old Testament, but > to FULFILL it with the promised New Covenant.  You can read all about it > on Wikipedia (a somewhat neutral source) > at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Covenant. > > Mind you, I'm not backing all this, just reporting it... > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > Bill and Bill!, > > > > I hear this claim that Jesus came to change the Old Testament all the time. > > Doesn't seem to ring true at all. > > > > > > Below are Jesus' quotes from the New Testament: > > > > > > â€Å"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, > > not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. > > Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches > > men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does > > them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of > > heaven.� â€" Matthew 5:18-19 > > â€Å"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest > > part of the letter of the law to become invalid.� (Luke 16:17) > > â€Å"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the > > prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, > > until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest > > part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken > > place.� (Matthew 5:17) > > â€Å"Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the > > law� (John7:19) > > > > > >And what are these laws from the Old Testament?: > > > > > >Blasphemy is Punishable by Death > > >One who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to > > death; the whole congregation shall stone the blasphemer. Aliens as well as > > citizens, when they blaspheme the Name, shall be put to death. > > (NRSV) â€" Leviticus 24:16 > > >Cheaters Must Die > > >If a man commits adultery with another man’s wifeâ€"with the > > wife of his neighborâ€"both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put > > to death. (NIV) â€" Leviticus 20:10 > > >Dishonoring Your Mother or Father is Punishable by Death > > >Anyone who dishonors father or mother must be put to death. Such a person > > >is guilty of a capital offense. (NLT) â€" Leviticus 20:9 > > >People Who Work on Sunday Should be Killed > > >You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the > > seventh day must be a Sabbath day of complete rest, a holy day dedicated to > > the LORD. Anyone who works on that day must be put to death. (NLT) â€" > > Exodus 35:2 > > >If a Woman is Not a Virgin When She Gets Married, She Has to Die > > >â€Å"If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests > > her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on > > her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she > > was not a virgin,’ … and evidences of virginity are not found > > for the > > young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of > > her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death > > with stones … (NKJV) â€" Deuteronomy 22:13-14,20-21 > > >There’s Nothing Wrong With Slavery > > >Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from > > >them you may buy slaves. (NIV) â€" Leviticus 25:44 > > >Gays Should be Put to Death > > >If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an > > >abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is > > upon them. (NRSV) â€" Leviticus 20:13 > > >Women Should Shut the Hell Up and Do as They’re Told > > >A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do > > not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be > > silent. (NIV) â€" Timothy 2:11-12 > > > > > >
