Merle, Jim was asking for advice. I gave him a little peek at 'my way'.
I don't think you're 'off course', but then having a course implies you have a destination, a target. Do you? If so what is it? ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  we all have our own ways bill!..you who seem to think i'm off course > > ...as the old  song goes...  "what ever gets you there go for it" > >  merle... > >  > Jim, > > Caveat: Everything I tell you is only my opinion. > > You've read a lot of books on what a lemon tastes like but now you need to > bite into the lemon and find out for yourself. The books can't do that for > you. They can encourage you and lead you up to that point, but their > usefulness ends there - and in fact I'd even say much of what you've learned > could be a hindrance to you in taking that final step. > > The taste of the lemon (and ONLY that)is what I call Buddha Nature, and it is > non-dualistic (no taster/lemon distintion - no subject/object). It is what I > often call 'Just THIS!' When experienced it has no name, no description - it > is Just THIS! Later we put names on it and give it a description - but then > it is not the thing itself (Just THIS!), it is our description of it. It is > what all the books you have read are trying to do. > > IMO the image you described below as called "mental-integration-itself" is > illusory - samsara. As soon as you become aware of it as something that > seems to be an "...image inside my head, I can see all parts of the image > simultaneously because something in me is integrating the parts of the image > in some way." What you are describing here is still dualistic - there is a > you, you have a head, your head has an inside, this image is located there, > the image has parts, etc... > > The second description starts to move a little farther away from dualism: > "In a way, this transparent mental-integration-itself seems to be in front of > the image. I then de-emphasize the image so it slips partly from awareness, > while becoming more aware of the clear empty mental-integration-itself." A > lot would depend on just what you meant by the phrase "clear empty > mental-integration-itself." If you are still clinging to a dualistic view of > this, something like, 'I am sitting, and I experience an image, and that > image has parts and then another image appears that I call the > 'mental-integration' of that first image, and then the first image disappears > from my awareness (or at least recedes into the background)- and this new > image is EMPTY'.' I'd have to again ask, what do you mean by 'empty'? > > If you mean this new image that you are now aware of that exists inside you > has no form, that's one thing. If you mean 'all is empty', no me, no image, > Just EMPTINESS!, then that is another thing entirely. > > Again, all this is just IMO. > > Before I could really offer you any advice I'd have to know what you mean by > 'mediation'. How do you do about that? If you could explain that a little > more it would help. Here's an example of how I sit (zazen): > > I start sitting by counting my breathes, then following my breathes and then > I drop the following and there is Just THIS!. In Japanese this is called > 'shikantaza' which literally means 'just sit' or is sometimes translated as > 'no mind'. What I do NOT do is try to visualize anything or think of anything > (like a 'safe place' or a mantra), although I know these are styles of > meditation. > > Thanks, and WELCOME TO THE ZEN FORUM! > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], "jfnewell7" <jfnewell7@> wrote: > > > > I need some practice advice. In my meditation, I have become aware of > > something I will call "mental-integration-itself" although those words are > > only an approximation. I will therefore report some background and details, > > below, to see if I can get this across. What I need is advice on whether or > > not mental-integration-itself is enough on the path that I should spend a > > lot of time noticing it. Also, of course, if anyone sees a way I can > > improve on the mental-integration-itself awareness I have so far, I would > > be grateful. > > > > Both Dzogchen and Zen say that somehow, satori and samsara are the same. I > > have tried for years to understand what that would feel like. Here are a > > several examples from a vast number of comments: > > > > Cleary, Thomas, trans. (2002) SECRETS OF THE BLUE CLIFF RECORD, ZEN > > COMMENTS BY HAKUIN AND TENKEI, Boston& London: Shambhala > > > > Page 76, "If potential does not leave a static position, it falls into a > > sea of poison ... > > > > "[Hakuin] The entirety of this introduction applies to the example. > > `Potential' is what appears before being expressed in words; the `static > > position' is the cave of satori... > > > > "[Tenkei] If you realize an awakening but do not eliminate leaking of > > views, you stick to the absolute stasis of transcendence in the realm of > > satori, which is to `fall into a sea of poison' ... " > > > > Rabjam, Longchen, Richard Barron, trans., Padma Translation Committee > > (2001) THE PRECIOUS TREASURY OF THE BASIC SPACE OF PHENOMENA, Junction > > City" Padma Publishing. > > > > Page 7, "However things appear or sound, within the vast realm of basic > > space they do not stray from the spontaneous equalness as dharmakaya, > > awakened mind... > > > > Page 15, "On this infinite foundation, extending everywhere impartially, > > the stronghold of awakened mind does not distinguish between samsara and > > nirvana..." > > > > Norbu, Chogyal Namkhui, Adriano Clemente, and Andrew Lukianowicz (1999) THE > > SUPREME SOURCE, THE KUNJED GYALPO, THE FUNDAMENTAL TANTRA OF DZOGCHEN > > SEMDE, Ithaca: Snow Lion Publications > > > > Page 150, "I am the essence of all phenomena; nothing exists that is not my > > essence. The teachers of the three dimensions {I'm unclear about what > > "dimensions" means here, Jim} are my essence. The Buddhas of the three > > times are my essence. The four types of yogins are my essence. The three > > worlds, of desire, of form, and without form, too, are my manifestations. > > The five great elements are my essence. The six classes of beings are my > > essence. All the habitats and the beings living therein are my essence. > > Nothing exists that is not my essence because I am the universal root: > > there is nothing that is not contained in me ..." > > > > OK. Now when I am meditating while there is an image inside my head, I can > > see all parts of the image simultaneously because something in me is > > integrating the parts of the image in some way. If I try to see this > > mental-integration-itself, the mental-integration-itself is like > > transparent space yet active. I can barely detect this transparent and it > > doesn't look like any of the shapes or colors of the image. In a way, this > > transparent mental-integration-itself seems to be in front of the image. I > > then de-emphasize the image so it slips partly from awareness, while > > becoming more aware of the clear empty mental-integration-itself. > > > > Intellectually, the mental-integration itself which I experience isn't any > > of the shapes or colors, yet it connects all the shapes and colors > > together. So it has a little bit of form, from the connecting, plus it is > > empty. Does the fact that it looks like it fits Buddhist definitions mean > > that what I am experiencing actually does fit those definitions? Therefore, > > would it be right to continue to become aware of the > > mental-integration-itself with all kinds of perceptions, experiences, and > > situations? > > > > So that I what I need some advice on. > > > > Jim > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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