Merle, Sometimes after reading the posts here I doubt that I've come to a forum that is supposed to be dedicated to zen.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  bill!!!!! what doubts? do share!..merle >  > Merle, > > Sure, I have doubts about a lot of things, but not about Buddha Nature...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > àyou are so sure footed...bill????? is there no doubt in your heart > > ever???????? merle > > > > > > à> > Merle, > > > > I don't know what you mean by your post below...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâàjesus bill!!!!!!!!..you are so so so..black and white..it's one > > > or the other..no shades of grey eh?...merle > > > Ãâà> > > Edgar, > > > > > > Of course I don't know who you've been talking to so can't really refute > > > that, but it might be just a misunderstanding. > > > > > > For example when I say 'I eat when hungry, sleep when tired and wake when > > > rested', I don't mean that in a passive sense, no do I mean that's all > > > that I do. I mean I do whatever I'm moved to do when I'm moved to do it. > > > That could mean 'I make obnoxious, large signs and march up and down on > > > the beach when someone starts building a condo'. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Yes they are active Bill, but then most of them claim they aren't dong > > > > Zen when they ARE being active... They claim they are doing zen only > > > > when sitting passively... That's the difference.. > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 18, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > I think most zen practitioners are very active, but not active in > > > > > doing the things you and your co-conspirator Merle are looking for. > > > > > I think most zen practitioners are active changing the world from the > > > > > bottom up rather than the top down. That is changing ourselves first > > > > > and then radiating out, rather than starting at trying to change the > > > > > government or society first and expecting the change will then > > > > > trickle down to the individual. > > > > > > > > > > These two courses of action are discussed in detail in Arthur > > > > > Koestler's excellent essay THE YOGI AND THE COMMISSAR . > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > KG for one... > > > > > > > > > > > > What Bill! says as opposed to what he actually does for another... > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 9:51 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar and Joe, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did you get the idea that 'zen practitioners' are > > > > > > > predominately passive? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" desert_woodworker@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Welcome home! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you knew Aitken Roshi, you'd be exhausted by now even > > > > > > > > just FOLLOWING the activism that he engaged in, much less > > > > > > > > participating in it with him. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I don't know where the notion of passivity of/as Zen > > > > > > > > practitioners comes from, which you mention. That may be the > > > > > > > > outsiders' view, due to "media" lack of understanding, going > > > > > > > > just one half millimeter deep; but it's not the view from the > > > > > > > > inside / our side. As you know! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever's necessary is what GOES. Look out, passivists, and > > > > > > > > paci-fists. Here come REAL Fists! We are the true kung-fu. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nihilism is knee-hilism: Not in MY "zen"! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zen-mind operates in a way opposite to "total passivity and > > > > > > > > nihilism'; never heard of such baloney / bullshit before now, > > > > > > > > in all my life. It is the Life-of-Life, instead; and not a > > > > > > > > sickly concept. Again, you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just agreeing with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely admirable! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In spite of what some would have us believe Zen does not > > > > > > > > > require total passivity and nihilism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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