Bill!, RAF,
The way you walk, the way you enter the teacher's room, the way you bow, all
show almost everything about your state of mind. The teacher is clear about
you in one second. The testing is done in order to see if you can also
express, as well as show outer signs. Our samadhi -- or our awakening after
its dissolution -- is meant to be *resilient*. It is not the samadhi of other
sects. The Zen sect brings settled-ness and samadhi and awakening into the
sphere of activity, DAILY activity, daily life. Our school is not Quietism!
Most of our practices are active ones. But Zazen is still and always the
foundation and enabling practice... dove-tailed with so many others, when we
have the gift of being able to practice formally with teacher and sangha.
In the awakened state, one may look at others and see these signs, also, or see
signs to the converse. It must be much easier -- or as easy -- for a teacher
to see them, too!
--Joe
> "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> Joe, RAF et al...
>
> Joe wrote and others questioned his statement:
> > There are confirmatory signs which a teacher can recognize
>
> I am not a teacher so I cannot confidently comment on what signs these might
> be. The three zen masters with which I have had enough contact to observe
> them perform this action seemed to have some criteria when it came to
> confirming my realization. They primarily asked me to SHOW them or
> DEMONSTRATE Buddha Nature. They seemed to want to see this done in several
> ways, but I did not get the sense that there was some particular thing they
> were looking for. Maybe there was and I just did not know that. None of
> them asked me to EXPLAIN it. I've never seen them confirm anyone else's
> realization.
>
> Besides not being a teacher myself, I also am not overly interested in
> determining whether or not someone else has realized Buddha Nature. I am
> pretty much focused on my zen practice and interactions with others
> regardless of what I might judge is the level of their interest in zen or
> realization of Buddha Nature.
>
> RAF wrote:
> > I find myself more interested in the occasions when a /teacher/ emits a
> > sign of /their/ illumination. Might you, or Bill, share with us some
> > instances you have encountered in your time immersed in the American zen
> > scene?
>
> Firstly, I'd have to start by saying I believe the realization of Buddha
> Nature is no different today in America than it was the the 6th century B.C.
> when Siddhartha Guatama is said to have realized it; and through his wordless
> flower sermon on Vulture Peak lead Maha Kashapa, one of his students, also to
> realization. I do agree that the teaching methods vary from culture to
> culture and time to time.
>
> Secondly, my formal training in zen was done in what I believe was a setting
> based on fairly traditional Japanese Zen Buddhist teaching techniques given
> in a sangha which was tailored to the 1960's American urban lifestyle in that
> in did not require a commitment to be a permanent residence in order to
> fully participate as a student in all the activities. There were however
> some students who did make such a such commitment. I was not one of those.
>
> With all that said my answer to RAF's question will I'm sure be
> underwhelming...I couldn't put my finger on any one or two things that led me
> to believe that my teachers had fully realized Buddha Nature and were able to
> demonstrate that in their daily lives. Words that immediately spring to mind
> are 'spontaneous', 'real', 'genuine', 'unrehearsed', 'plain' and
> 'unassuming'. They always seemed to have something very short and simple to
> say that would at first seem almost trivial, but after more reflection their
> words seemed to blossom into layers and layers of meaning and wisdom - and
> mystery.
>
> I realize also that the setting and the very designation and acceptance by
> the entire sangha that they were, if not fully realized beings, at least very
> accomplished masters and adept teachers. I'm sure that 'group mentality'
> probably had a heavy influence on the way I saw them.
------------------------------------
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