Merle, Joe had a more detailed explanation in his post on this subject. In that post Joe wrote: "In the awakened state, karma and free will are moot, and do not operate." That's very close to my understanding of karma and free will, but using Joe's sentence structure as a model I will elaborate my opinion further:
When in the awakened state (realizing Buddha Nature) there is no karma nor free will, there is Just THIS! - only Buddha Nature. Karma and free will can only exist as illusions in a dualistic state that also supports the illusions of self, actions, time and cause-and-effect. When in this dualistic state that generates illusions, you may certainly have the illusions of karma and free will or even predestination. The number and quality of illusions you are able to generate is seemingly numberless. The difference between the way Joe and I expressed our understanding of karma and free will is that Joe implies they do exist, but "in the awakened state" they are moot (have no effect, are inconsequential). My position is they do not exist but are illusory, and only can have an illusory effect on you when you create/believe in them in a dualistic state. An example would be a Christian believing he/she has sinned and as a result feels guilty (and at that point my actually feel like they are already in Hell). Hope this helps clarify my position. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester wrote: > > > > Â please clarify bill...merle > Â > Suresh, > > My answer to your question about karma is: there is no karma and free will > does exist. IMO the concept of karma is illusory and is just a part of > Buddhist dogma, similar to concepts of sin/redemption and heaven/hell in > Christianity. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > "Buddhism teaches that it is due to Ignorance, Hatred, and Greed." > > > > Now if we take this case of Delhi rape, why was that 23 year old girl > > had to suffer like this and die after 13 days of pain. Watching films > > in night and returning with your boyfriend is common in any country. > > It is an everyday activity in most of the cities. So that girl had not > > done some grave mistake. > > > > So why innocents were suffer? If I ask this, then all of you will > > tell, this may be due to past karma. When `Karma' is quoted no > > question can be asked. If `karma' is quoted, then your words > > `Ignorance, Hatred, and Greed' all become meaningless, because it is > > due to my karma, I am ignorant, or it is due to karma I am hatred or > > it is due to karma I am greed. > > > > What is truth? `Karma'? or no karma? Or in other words is there free > > will exist? Or there is no free will? > > > > Best wishes > > Suresh > > > > > > -- > > Thanks and best regards > > J.Suresh > > New No.3, Old No.7, > > Chamiers road - 1st Lane, > > Alwarpet, > > Chennai - 600018 > > Ph: 044 42030947 > > Mobile: 91 9884071738 > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
