Hi Joe, Thanks for the advice. I'm living in Chongqing, China, and its impossible to find anything here that is not a scam. I wonder if anyone would know if anywhere I can check on the side of the world? Also, I'd really like to find a westerner guide, if master is impossible, but its hard for me to get over the "Halloween" quality of most of the white zen folks. I'm not trying to be an asshole really, its just hard to take seriously a westerner who changes his name to some Japanese variation like Phil Watanabe Smith, and wears robes from Japan, 1000 years ago. I lived in Japan for 8 years, and know how nutty that sort of shit is to the Japanese. But in addition, it just seems ridiculous to me. I'm white, living in 2013. These props seem very counter productive to me, especially when you see them doing a group walk in public. Seems such an obvious cry for attention. Maybe I've got it all wrong. Maybe someone can help me with this shortcoming as well? All the best, Bummy "Charles" McNeedy
--- In [email protected], "Joe" wrote: > > Scott, > > Someone here has quoted several times a line which is probably true, and > which runs, approximately: > > "Even a so-so teacher can awaken a dedicated student, but a wishy-washy > student is hopeless no matter who the teacher is". > > Another matter that's likely to be important is the sense of connection that > we feel with a teacher. Of course, such a sense or impression can change and > develop with time, too. I've known people who felt a great connection with a > teacher at first, but drifted away when the connection later came to seem > unsatisfactory. I've known others who felt no connection at all, but who > decided to be a student of that master anyway, and had good results (a > connection developed rather late). > > But I think we can help ourselves if we seek a teacher in a setting where > there is a real lineage and hence good quality-control on the formation of > new teachers. Transmission assures that a lot of quality- control effort has > been expended (but nothing is guaranteed!, nor is it guaranteed forever). > I'd say, in any case, commit yourself to the Dharma, not to a teacher; then, > you'll be OK. > > I think any of the Chinese successors of Ch'an Master Sheng Yen can be > depended on to be the best quality, thorough masters. The Chan Meditation > Center website will tell you who they are. There are 7-day (or longer) Chan > retreats at the Pine Bush, New York, retreat center, called Dharma Drum > Retreat Center. The American and European successors of Sheng Yen are also > fine, but I think the Chinese successors are even better, because they are > monastics, and have lived a very concentrated life in Chan (Zen). They have > a very good track record with Western students. Sheng Yen was my teacher, > and I am/was his 13th disciple in the United States. He passed away in 2009. > > Wishing you well! I admire your sincere will to practice with a true > teacher, and I hope you find just such a situation soon. If possible, talk > with the students of the teacher, too, not just with the teacher, when > "shopping around". I'd say, talk even MORE with the students than with the > teacher. See what kind of folks are attracted to the teacher. Talk with > enough of the students so that you can get pretty good statistics, not just > one or two. If you have to do the selection by Internet, though, then it's > harder, or it's a roll of the dice. But, again, much of the responsibility > in practice is the student's. Good luck! > > --Joe > > > "Bummy McNeedy" wrote: > > > > I've been meditating for about 5 years, and taking the zen approach for > > about a year, and feel I'm making progress. I'd like to go to a zen > > monastery, but not in a radiated place like Japan or S. Korea. However, all > > the zen masters out there I've run into or found, are not enlightened at > > all. In fact, they've all trivialized zen, and do tired out bullshit like > > yell KATZ, and bang sticks. This was done at one time, as a fresh way to > > stop one's mind. It was never meant to become a stupid tradition. Anyway, I > > want to find a real McCoy, enlightened master. Doesn't matter how far away, > > just has to be real, and not basting in radioactive debris. > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
