Mike, I'm getting very, very weary of all this.
I could go through your quote below phrase by phrase, line by line to tell you why I think it is either wrong or why you are misinterpreting it, but what good would that do? If you and Edgar won't or can't recognize the difference between thought and experience, between illusion and Buddha Nature, between theology and zen practice then there is just really nothing more I can say. If you can recognize the difference but just don't want to use the word illusion then come up with a different word, but a word that discriminates thoughts from experience. YOU (your illusory self) creates thoughts. YOU terminate them. Do you really think YOU (illusory or not) can actually create and terminate reality? No! YOU can create and terminate thoughts because they are illusions. You (your illusory self) can only PERCEIVE (form thoughts about) reality. Buddha Nature is the experience of reality. And one more thing...the word 'dharma' was brought to you by the same folks that also brought to you the word 'maya'. Do you think they would have two very specific words for what you are claiming is the same thing? ...Bill! --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Bill!,<br/><br/>Just looked up a definition of 'dharma', too. > Buddhism.about.com<br/><br/><br/>Definition:<br/>Dharma in both Hinduism and > Buddhism refers to the principle or law that orders the universe. In > Buddhism, the word in particular points to the law of karma and > rebirth.<br/><br/>Because this law was recognized and formulated by the > historical Buddha, dharma is most commonly used in Buddhism to mean "the > teachings of the Buddha."<br/><br/>Dharma is also used in Mahayana Buddhism > to mean "manifestation of reality." This sense can be found in the Heart > Sutra, which refers to the voidness or emptiness (shunyata) of all > dharmas.<br/><br/>In Theravada Buddhism, dharma is a term for the factors of > existence, or the transitory conditions that cause phenomena to come into > being.<br/><br/>Dharma is also sometimes used to refer to ethical rules and > to mental objects or thoughts.<br/><br/><br/> > > <br/><br/>So now I think anyone following this thread can see that a thought > can be a manifestation of reality I.e, a dharma. Note the word > 'reality'!<br/><br/>You're right about the OBJECT not being the problem and I > never said it was (which is why I'm not overly concerned about this topic). > The answer to the problem is an experiential understanding that the OBJECT is > empty of inherent existence and so is impermanent - and grasping at it will > lead to suffering. Likewise, the self is an illusion, but the belief it is > substantial is a real belief. So the thought of desiring something is still > real even though empty (Buddha Nature itself is empty. In fact, emptiness > itself is empty!). <br/><br/>For example, if I see a coil of rope in the > night and believe it to be a snake, the thought of fear is still real even > though the snake itself was an illusion. Saying the thought is an illusion > won't do me much good the next time I see a snake and it *is* real! > Unless of course you argue that both the snake and the fear are illusory, in > which case you probably wont be around very long to continue this illusory > conversation! <br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/>Sent from > Yahoo! Mail for iPad > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
