Suresh, Although I'm not actually reading these they to seem to resemble the of Dialogs of Plato because of their question and answer format.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], SURESH JAGADEESAN <varamtha@...> wrote: > > D - Disciple M - Ramana Maharishi > > > D.: What is this path of enquiry? > > M.: From the sastras it is well-known to consist of sravana, manana, > nidhidhyasana and samadhi > > i.e., hearing the Truth, reflection, meditation and Blissful Peace. > > The Vedas themselves declare it to be so. the Self must be heard from > the master, reflected and meditated upon." In another place it is said > that in Blissful Peace the Self must be realised. > > To hear the Supreme Truth, reflect and meditate on it, and to remain > in Samadhi form together the enquiry into the Self. > > They have for their `cause' the aforesaid four sadhanas, namely, > discernment, desirelessness, tranquillity and desire to be liberated > > To analyse sravana under the five categories: > > Intense desire to be liberated gives rise to it; > > always to be hearing of the non-dual Brahman is its `nature'; > > the complete removal of that aspect of the veiling power of Ignorance > which says, "It (Brahman) does not exist" is its `effect'; > > non-recurrence of this veiling power is its `limit'; > > a firm indirect knowledge is its `fruit'. > > D.: How can the desire to be liberated be said to be its `cause'? > > M.: In the sruti it is said, "In the state of dissolution before > creation there was only the non-dual Reality." This Reality is the > same as the Self. > > Only he who is eager to be liberated will seek the knowledge of the > Self and take to hearing it. No other is interested in it. > > Therefore eagerness to be liberated is the essential requisite for > this part of enquiry, namely sravana. > > D.: Just now you said that always to be hearing of the non-dual Self > is the `nature' of sravana. Who is this non-dual Self? > > > M.: He is famous in the srutis as the Consciousness beyond the gross, > subtle and causal bodies, apart from the five sheaths and witness of > the waking, dream and sleep states. > > > D.: Master, on hearing it from you, the nature of the Self is now > clear to me, but the knowledge remains only indirect. Kindly instruct > me in reflection, by practising which the darkness of Ignorance now > hiding the Self may vanish and direct experience result. > > M.: Always to direct the thought with subtle reasoning upon the > non-dual Self that is now known indirectly, is called reflection. > > D.: Please tell me its `cause', `nature', `effect', `limit' and `fruit'. > > M.: Discernment of the real from the unreal is its `cause'; > > enquiry into the Truth of the non-dual Self is its `nature'; > > to tear off that veiling aspect of Ignorance which makes one say: "It > does not shine forth" is its `effect'; > > the non recrudescence of this veiling is its `limit'; and > > direct experience is its `fruit'. So say the sages. > > D.: Why is discernment said to be its `cause'? > > M.: Only he who, by discernment of the real from the unreal has > acquired indirect knowledge, is fit to seek by enquiry the direct > knowledge of experience. No other can succeed in the search for it. > > > D.: Why should not the Desire for Liberation be the `cause' of reflection? > > M.: A mere desire to be liberated cannot make a man fit for enquiry > into the Self. > > Without sravana one cannot have even an indirect knowledge. > > How can one succeed in one's enquiry? > > Only after knowing the nature of the Self, should one proceed to seek it. > > Ignorant of its true nature, how can one investigate the Self? > > Simple desire to be liberated will not suffice. > > D.: Should not this desire lead to enquiry? With the rise of this > desire the man will begin to hear about the nature of the Self and > gain indirect knowledge which must enable him to undertake the > enquiry. > > > M.: This amounts to saying that the seeker possesses discernment. > > He is not only desirous of Liberation but also discerning in intellect. > > With sravana comes this faculty of intellectual discernment of the > real from the unreal, or the Self from the non-self. > > This is called indirect knowledge. The sastras say that only he who > possesses indirect knowledge can discern the real or the Self from the > unreal or the non-self, and is fit for enquiry into the Self. > > Therefore discernment is the sine-qua-non for enquiry. > > D.: Even if the desire for Liberation be not the particular cause of > Reflection, could not either desirelessness or tranquillity be the > cause of it? > > M.: All these are only general aids for reflection but not its > particular causes. > > A desireless and tranquil man need not necessarily have the indirect > knowledge of the Self and is therefore unfit for enquiry into the > Self. > > There are men of austerities who are desireless and tranquil but not > anxious for Liberation. > > Having no desire for Liberation they have not heard at all about the Self. > > D.: How can they be said not to be desirous of Liberation? > > M.: In as much as they engage in austerities without taking to sravana > etc., which is the only gateway to Liberation, the absence of the > desire for Liberation is inferred. > > D.: No, they too can be desirous of being liberated. > > M.: If so, they must give up their austerities, always remain with a > master and engage themselves in hearing of the Self. > > If it be said that they have already done sravana also, then since > they will have gained indirect knowledge, they should be engaged in > reflection. > > Not having done sravana, though endowed with desirelessness and > tranquillity, they are incapable of discerning the real from the > unreal and therefore unfit for enquiry into the Self. > > Desirelessness etc., can only be aids to this enquiry but not its chief > causes. > > Discernment of the real from the unreal is the only chief cause. > > > D.: Can the Self not be realised by austerities accompanied by > desirelessness and tranquillity, without enquiry? > > M.: No. By non-enquiry the Self has been lost sight of; to regain it > enquiry is needed. > > In its absence how can even crores of austerities restore the sight? > > Always to enquire into the Self is the only remedy for the blindness > of the ignorant whose mental eye has been bedimmed by the darkness of > non-enquiry spreading its veil. > > Unless by the eye of knowledge gained through enquiry, the Self cannot > be realised. > > D.: What is this enquiry into the Self? > > M.: With one-pointed intellect to seek within the five sheaths the > Self which is shining forth as `I' in the body, senses, etc., > considering "who is this Self?, where is It? and how is It?", is the > nature of the enquiry into the Self. > > With subtle intellect the enquiry into the Reality, namely the Self > within the unreal sheaths must always be pursued. > > > > -- > Thanks and best regards > J.Suresh > New No.3, Old No.7, > Chamiers road - 1st Lane, > Alwarpet, > Chennai - 600018 > Ph: 044 42030947 > Mobile: 91 9884071738 > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! 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