Hi Alex --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Alex Bunard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I couldn't agree with you more. For example, if a > seeker asks the Master about the essense of reality, > the Master may reply: "Mind-only". The next seeker > approaches the same master and asks the same question, > the Master may reply: "No-mind." Seemingly totally > contradictory, but in essence, coming from the same > source. > However, I tend to disagree with you that form and > substance are in any way different. This is where I > suspect our contention may lie.
You've cited a good example. So "Mind-only" and "No-Mind" are only different fingers. "Mind-only" is of course correct intellectually. However, the seeker was using his/her intellect to understand "Mind- only", holding on to an *idea* of "Mind-only", instead of realizing it directly. So the master said "No-mind" to shock the seeker into a state of *doubt*, which has the impact of stopping the seeker from using his intellect to seek truth. Hence the Rinzai school's saying, "Great Doubt Great Enlightenment, No Doubt No Enlightment." So both fingers though different point at the same moon of non- intellect. But this is just my understanding based on some reading and some slip-shod practice, so I'll be really grateful if yourself or some other posters would want to correct me on this. > Good to see you on board, wai! I've certainly learned > a lot from you in our short but nevertheless charged > interaction. I've learnt much from you too. However, all that I've shared is just some opinions of Zen which I worry might be misleading. So I'm just wondering if you might want to make a visit to some Zen Masters or Roshis to learn a more authentic version of Zen. There are quite a few of them around and should be fairly easy to locate if you bother to try. If you feel you have managed to learn at this forum, I'm sure you can learn even more from an authentic Zen teacher. It will also be a good opportunity to have your satori experience verified, not necessarily in terms of whether or not you have had one, but more in terms of the degree of its clarity, and thereby get some guidance from the teacher. One can always learn from a meeting with a Zen Master or Roshi. And since you enjoy discussion of Madhyamika, you should also consider teachers of Tibetan Buddhism, whom I understand are adepts of Madhyamika, which you probably already know. So I'm actually quite surprised that you visited a Zen forum to discuss Madhyamika. I thought a Tibetan Buddhism forum would be more appropriate - just a thought. But wherever you go, I hope you will not gate-crash them the way you did here, will you? :-)) > This I agree with. I'd just like to add that, in my > experience, Zen cuts through by non-cutting. Here's a koan: How do you cut with non-cutting? > Off the top of my head (I'm at work now) I wouldn't be > able to offer pointed examples. Throughout my years of > practice, I've read many recorded statements where the > Masters would seemingly contradict themselves. I'd > have to go back and dig up those books again. No longer necessary, you've already provided a good example above. > But how about this: you probably know, as I'm sure all > the other people on this list do, that the Buddha > himself taught that the most important thing to > acknowledge is that there is no soul, no self-nature. > If there is one thing to take away from Buddhism it is > this -- no atman, no underlying essence. Who is it that's thinking that there's no soul, no self-nature? > How then do you reconcile that with the Buddha's > teaching about karma, rebirth and liberation. If there > is no self-nature (no svabhava), who is it that enjoys > the accumulation of karma, the bitter fruits of > rebirth, and the sweetness of liberation? Doesn't this > seem a bit inconsistent to you? Who is it that's trying to reconcile? > Of course, I absolutely agree with you that it is > inconsistent only on the superficial level, but not in > a deeper sense. But the problem is that sometimes > people are not in the agreement on what's superficial > vs. what's essential. Who is it that's thinking superficial vs. essential? Who are you, really? Do you know? We are like a servant who works tirelessly 24 hours a day for a master whom we don't even know. What a joke!! Thanks again for sharing, and have a nice weekend. wai ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
