I was trying to show Fudo that even though he was saying words are harmless, he had expressed before that you had to be responsible for your words effect on others, which is a contradiction. My argument with him was that it's better to teach with love than with violence.
You bring up a different topic, and a very good one: Responsibility vs Freedom Responsibility \Re*spon`si*bil"i*ty\ (r?*sp?n`s?*b?l"?*t?), n.; pl. <http://dict.die.net/-ties/> -ties (-t?z). [Cf. F. responsabilit['e].] 1. The state of being responsible, accountable, or answerable, as for a trust, debt, or obligation. Freedom \Free"dom\ (fr[=e]"d[u^]m), n. [AS. fre['o]d[=o]m; fre['o]free + -dom. See Free <http://dict.die.net/free/> , and -dom <http://dict.die.net/-dom/> .] 1. The state of being free; exemption from the power and control of another; liberty; independence. Buddhism is meant to liberate. Freedom by definition excludes responsibility. Do you think there can be conciliation between Buddhism and responsibility? Feel free to continue the discussion if you're not too busy defending Fudo. I'm sure he'll manage. -----Mensaje original----- De: Rod Scholl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: 28/09/2004 12:29 p.m. Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: RE: [Zen] Killing buddhas Sebastian, This one even Eminem (rap guy) laughs at when talking as his "alter-ego" Slim Shady... "Who woulda thought Slim Shady would be somethin that you woulda bought that woulda made you get a gun and shoot at a cop -- I just said it - I ain't know if you'd do it or not..." http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eminem/whoknew.html Rod Scholl -----Original Message----- From: Sebastian Ortiz Duran Gochicoa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zen] Killing buddhas Fudo: Didn't you once scold someone for saying "Do what your heart tells you"? Maybe some psycho might misinterpret and go kill his family right? Words CAN be dangerous. The fact is some people DON'T know that words are not real life. The fact is some people ARE hurt by words. And you KNOW this. So you hurt them on purpose and then say they have no right to be hurt. They may not have a right, they might be nuts, but they're hurting anyway. If we can find a way to correct someone by violence and a way to do the exact same thing with love, which should we choose? Maybe it's easier for you to be sarcastic and to mock. So try harder! If your accepting the responsibility of being "compassionate" then carry the whole load. -----Mensaje original----- De: fudo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: 28/09/2004 11:56 a.m. Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: [Zen] Killing buddhas Sebastian Ortiz Duran Gochicoa wrote: > Rod: Just not the weapon of choice. Their excess of force makes > me question their motivation. Dear Sebastian, again, this is an email list. This is fighting with sponge sword,in a pretend place. I do not really see much point in pulling a blow with a pillow. No one dies here, no one stays longer then they want to. It is the longest running most active Zen list on Yahoo for a reason. No one gets picked on here until and unless they come on like (excuse the expression) God's gift to Zen. Then whatever force is needed or even can be applied here is often not even enough to get them to see the folly of their ways. Many who come here with this sort of an attitude, get a look in the mirror,and learn something and stay. Many more come on, drop their load of crap and when someone tells them what they dropped is a load of crap they leave because we are "too forcefull". This list is not real life. When I say *whack* no one is struck. Remember when you get your undies in a bundle that this is not real life. It is all virtual. I remember a saying I learned in grade school, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me. One cannot be hurt by words alone unless they mistake words for real life. Unless they mistake saying something is done for it actually being done. (Mission accomplished?). If one has one's head up one's ass this far, it is not nice to let them think they are blind. Everyone who moans about how hard this is, in my opinion, a little nuts. This is not real life. No one is really killed, at worst they can only have their ego bruised. An ego they pretend not to have in the first place. If you think this is difficult try living in the real world. This list as harsh as it is, is a walk in the park compared to what these "fragile" people are going to face just walking out their real front door. If what you have cannot survive in the real world, it is not real. If it cannot survive here where all weapons are made of sponge it has not a prayer of survival in the real world. Get real. Be Well Fudo Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! 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