--- In [email protected], "Rod Scholl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I enjoyed the input, Dave -- I'd tell you that we see eye-to-eye on several things, but I wouldn't want to win you any disfavor here ;) > > "Living in the moment" as I suspect you know, can be done so deliberately, as to actually miss it. A few possibilities are below. I don't send this to you in particular -- its just something I thought about a few months back when I was advised to "live as though there is no tomorrow." Not suprisingly, my ego finds it interesting (since I made it :) I ordered them from least to most "natural". > > > 3. "Living as though there is no tomorrow (this is the last moment)." This frees one of future planning, and can be a great relief. But the human (and universe IMHO) existence is rooted in hope, and thus one can never not be planning for the next moment in some form. So it tends to make me want to scream, shout, and use hookers and heroin to jam as much everything into a single moment, which is the opposite of natural! > > 2. "Living as though this was the only moment." This is even more freeing than above because one is free from past errors, promises, paradigms. Again, though, the component of hope and forward movement is left out. > > 1. "Living as though this were the first moment." This frees one of past paradigms, and yet allows one to do some planning if that is what one feels like. Occasionally even the first chess move takes a little strategizing. However, often, one wouldn't spoil such an irreverant and irreplaceable "first" moment with silly planning, and one sets immediately to the question, "how shall I start the ceremony". Perhaps when some peace is found, more planning arises (I don't know, 'cause I'm barely starting to resolve the mass of distractions clouding me). > > When living as though it were my first moment, the first thing I usually do is relax a few muscles I didn't realize I was tensing, at which point I realize, I can't think clearly about planning, till I stretch my back (ahhh) and damn, I need to take a shit, lemme do that first, then I can get to the other stuff when my mind's a little more uncluttered... Like waking up the morning, before planning your day, you first might just work the crick out of your stiff neck. > > Of course this is only an exercise to remind one what it feel like to remember the moment (or forget all that other BS). With practice I think it is clear one needn't ASK oneself "how should I start the ceremony" because there's no one to ask, and you wouldn't want to start the ceremony with a rhetorical question to an audience of none! Thus, one is more likely to take the most natural first step. > > All my best, > > > Rod Scholl > hey Rod, how does one live in the moment when ones mind is constantly thinking about the future and past? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Newman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 8:03 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Digest Number 983 > > > > > > > > > > Greetings All, lovely saying this, I am a 'newbe' too. Love > > the rhetoric > > in the below two posts ergo I will toss in my one cent if that's ok.. > > > > >> There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. < > > > > > > > > > but to me suffering is part of the life > > > experience. > > > > sad but true, I agree, sort of seems silly the combination of > > brilliance > > we seem to possess in so many ways as if we were put together by some > > mad genius who did so much then got tired and walked away or > > something.. > > the suffering and pain and sickness etc. of course we are > > able to see it > > as a good thing too as in need the clouds to have the rainbows, yet.. > > > > > From my studies in Buddhism, I've learned to be open to all > > > experiences in life; > > > > what does that mean to you? > > > > in nyc where I live that seems akin to sensory suicide, selective > > perception puts up needed walls on the doors of perception.. > > Otherwise > > I've read we'd instantly go insane with all senses really experience > > everything going on.. On a sidenote, Wired had a great > > article way back > > about a guy who lived completely in the present for a year because of > > psychological necessity (he had convinced himself he was to > > die shortly) > > and in the end that person felt life was sort of shallow without the > > fullness of reflection on his past, and the hope and > > temporal aliveness > > the sense of a future gave him.. he thought the NOW was greatly > > overated. hmm.. > > > > > > > the key is being centered, knowing yourself. If you understand your > > > own being, the winds of life can blow as hard as they want, you will > > > not be moved. > > > > sounds very stoic, ..once I looked at a book by a 1950's > > hypnotist who > > advised pricking onself with pins to gradually toughen our resolve in > > the face of pain, to change the agony of suffering to the > > pure sensation > > of pain.. In a way this reminds me of the saying, there's > > nothing like a > > good downward comparison.. having or developing the fortitude and > > hardiness to withstand the slings and arrows is intense detachment I > > guess, ergo the stability and centeredness attached to those > > powers is significant. > > > > > I see so many people that when something happens, they > > > have an immediate emotional reaction; however, if they viewed it > > > from a detached(read objective) perspective, they would understand > > > the situation as it truly is and thereby be able to control it. > > > > exactly. Yet is control the endgame of us irrational beings? The main > > focus of a prison is control as well.. > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > but seriously, who is alex? > > > > >> > Isnt the point of practice is not to eliminate > > >> > suffering but know that no matter what suffering is > > >> > there , its a part of life ??Only when you accept > > >> > that fact do you achieve freedom by being detached > > >> > to whatever comes up in your mind that causes > > >> > suffering . > > > > are you saying.. we suffer (aixo era y no era/ it > > simultaneously is and > > is not so) and from this 'reality' we become free in our > > acceptance of > > 'it'.. that is, that the suffering is a direct result of > > nonacceptance > > of it? > > > > >> This harkens back to what Diana said several days ago-- > > she observed > > >> that suffering is there only if we > > >> take it seriously. > > > > isn't this a contradiction of terms, isn't suffering inherently taken > > seriously, otherwise it wouldn't be suffering would it? hmmm.. > > > > >> Which begs the question: if suffering is not taken > > seriously, does it > > >> then qualify to be taken as 'suffering'? > > > > a tree is the forest argument it seems.. > > > > > It is of crucial importance to come to terms with the fact that > > > suffering can indeed be eliminated. > > > > Is that the case with you? I think its a more or less thing.. > > I know of > > no nonsufferers, only people who clain so.. of which there is no > > shortage, but always, on closer examination, their woes > > spring forth.. > > Buddha is the ideal of this to me. > > > > >> Buddhahood is not some sort of a truce with the world. It > > is not a > > >> philosophical resignation to the sad but inevitable facts of life. > > >> Buddhahod is complete > > >> elimination of any possiblity of pain. > > > > hmmm this seems a very idealistic rendering of Buddhism to > > me, as if it > > is an opiate supreme.. how does such a Boddhahod work in your > > view here? > > can you describe what consciousness is like to such an > > enlightened one? > > > > >> > This is my impression but I find it hard > > >> > to remain detached ALL the time . What are other > > >> > thoughts on this ...Is it really attainable to > > >> > become detached and act as a witness to what is > > >> > going on around you ?I try but it doesnt always work > > > > Yes, I think not. If you are then you are some magical enlightned > > wizard. Like Buddha.. > > > > >> > for me --Allison > > > > me too Alison.. > > > > >> It is definitelly possible. If it weren't, what good > > >> would the practice be? > > > > I would say it is good because it encourages less suffering > > through less > > attachment, yet the ideal of total detachment is just that, an ideal. > > > > maaythforceBwithya!, dvnyc > > > > "Do be do be do be, doobee doobee doo" -K.Vonnegut > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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