Alex writes: "It is our duty as teachers to offer expedient, skillful means to our students, so that they can really ease into this practice. Just giving them lofty goals, and then, once they fall flat on their faces, tell them to try harder, is not very skillful (in my opinion)."
Alex, I appreicate your efforts on this forum, and with your 'school' of students as well. I hope you know that it can only be seen as well intended. (I don't think you put up with my poking just for your own benefit). Do you see that being a teacher is also a burden? It is your greatest attachment, I think. I(perhaps mine too). It carried you to this forum, and shakes you about like a rag doll. When the human race and all its knowledge becomes extinct, what will be your legacy? And I supsect if you put 1/10th the time into finding a teacher as you put into trying to recruit students, you would have much more to teach, and perhaps a different view on what is skillful based on 'personal experience' rather than from across the divide of the teacher/student chasm. The only skillful means I know, are the one's that work on me. The rest is conjecture. To become more skillful means I need to be TAUGHT more. This is why the lamp is passed, and not reignited in every hovel. I don't think anyone argues that you have drawn value from the sutras; or that you have penetrated each one of them to some extent, even a great extent if you prefer. The point is when will you have the courage to learn from more direct and expedient methods? Rod Scholl -----Original Message----- From: Alex Bunard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Suggestions for reading? Thanks, this is very generous of you. You still haven't explained what did you mean by the term 'projection'? The kind of instructions you've given us below ('forget what you think you know' etc.) is, of course, absolutely correct. The only problem I'm having with your approach is that it is not very skillful. It is true, it is correct, but not upaya (i.e. 'expedient means'). You see, it is very easy to say 'forget what you think you know' and so on. And true enough, anyone who follows this instruction successfully will indeed penetrate very deeply. But the real issue is that pretty much no one could ever follow these simplistic instructions. Yes, a student can make a decision to 'forget what he thinks he knows' etc. But his Will cannot triumph over the countless ages of habituation. It is our duty as teachers to offer expedient, skillful means to our students, so that they can really ease into this practice. Just giving them lofty goals, and then, once they fall flat on their faces, tell them to try harder, is not very skillful (in my opinion). Alex --- "Rev. Genryu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Forget the Suttas for now, forget what you think you > know. Just pay attention to what ever you are doing > now, sit, listen, learn to hear with your eyes, > question everything. > > Genryu > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alex Bunard > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Zen] Suggestions for reading? > > > No. Teach me, please. > > Alex > > --- "Rev. Genryu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Alex, ever heard the term projection? ;o) > Practice > > has nothing to do with how many Suttas you know > nor > > how clever you think you are. > > > > Genryu > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ===== No karma was produced during the composition of this letter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
