I liked the post amazaing 63. Selling virtue to a prostitue -- love it. I'll leave the defense of Zen to the card-carrying members -- but in reference to religion/spirituality in general let us refer to it all as a 'path' rather than a destination.
Have you gotten further down the path through your efforts? If yes, then you recognize it, and can skip this post. For me, this is best answered by what delusion I've moved away from rather than trying to describe what I've moved towards. My load has been lightened considereably which although was not the goal, it is definitely appreciated. Self-knowing by some philosphies is a or even THE fundamental funtion in existence -- an endless self-investigation/discovery. I spent 20 years thinking I had not taken a single step towards self-discovery. The self shrank away from my investigations. Everywhere I turned I saw charlatans and lies. Smoke and mirrors. Lies disguised as poetry. Embracing a fairly aetheist, non-cartesian, almost mechanistic view, I joined the ranks of reason worshippers and tried to unravel the mystery of the one and the many, consciousness, quantum randomness, creation of being, etc. But I felt my discriminating mind had served only to remove possible paths to walk illuminating them as self-indulgent bullshit. The world became smaller and smaller, uglier and uglier, lonlier and lonlier... lost at sea... Until: I read some mythology describing the process I had been going through in Joseph Campbell's Hero of a Thousand Faces. Not just one myth -- but many -- all vaguely (and mostly unhelpfully) describing the difficult and unrewarding beginning of the journey. This too was just a poetry describing reality, and was not helpful, but at least anecdotally comforting to not be alone. However I also found that many myths went on to describe all sort of weird shit that I didn't understand. Transformations, cosmic marriages, celebrated death, taking the father's thrones, etc. That is when I first recognized the 'path'. I thought I had been trying to choose to find a single accetable direction to travel for 20 years when I finally realized I'd been travelling all along. And travelling a very well worn path. A very, very well worn path. When I looked at these stories, and asked where I was, and what was next, I was next supposed to meet 'the bride' -- to embrace life as the whore she is. To get sucked into her decadent beauty like a school boy. This was something I had been avoiding deliberately not trusting I could ever escape. However, all those stories, and religions, pointed to a yet further step, of 'taking your father's place' -- a step 'further down the path' than the ugly one of marrying this imperfect unyielding seemingly pointless existence. Seeing the next, step which was attractively described in myths, religions, etc. (unfortunately only books) I think sped my way. I certainly felt a whole lot more at ease because hope had returned. Now I see the other half of marriage is becoming the man (delivering on the promise of courtship). Living. Now I'm eagerly seeking my father so I can drive the sun chariot. I'm still pretty young in these steps, but having them pointed at in ways I didn't understand and then having made headway and recognized the meaning of the pointers have shown me if anything is real, it is the path. A process both repetitive in the small ways I complete the path, but singular in that in the largest sense you can only truly complete it when death absorbs what's left of you. The recognition of the journey of enlightenment (easing) is itself enlightening! In fact, that healed my broken heart more than any progress I've made heretofore. Practice is enlightenment. It is a practice I seek, not a destination. Of course the question remains what to practice. Is Zen a surefire path for me/you? Do we approach it with the right reasons? Or are we so poinsoned by kungfu movies, and enchanted by stories of 'masters' that we'll spend the first 20 years having someone beat the illusion out of us? What are our alternatives? Will it hurt others in your life? What does our gut tell us? Our heart? Our intellect? Our caprice? When you see the clear path then taking a step is easy, its always a matter of wholeheartedly realizing the step to be taken that's the trick. I can imagine a book you accept on faith, or a teacher who exemplifies what you want to become makes this quite easy! Anyone is right to choose this book/teacher with all their resources (but better a bad choice than no choice). If you are walking of your own will, then these choices are the journey and the journey is enlightenment in and of themselves. And so follow the most worthwhile instruction you can find, inside and out. If you find you don't know what is your next step, your next barrier to remove, a single purpose, meaning, goal, love, or hope. This is not uncommon. It is the belly of the whale. The first time is often the worst. You can spend 3 days, 3 years, or your whole life there. How to get out? History says its usually by some trick -- tickle the belly with a feather from your cap -- or perhaps the fish just vomits you up of its own accord. Often after re-emerging it was due to an amulet given you by some odd acquaintence who couldn't even tell you WHEN to use, but you would know it was time. I have friends who have asked me how I got out. Demanded angrily for me to tell them which books to read (since I had slain all my real-life teachers). I only laughed and insisted it likely would not work for them, because they are different -- probably just hurt them and dishearten them further when it didn't work. I don't offer much advice, other than how I know them peronsally, and what things they obviously fuck up. Maybe with that removed (job, girlfriend, drinking, analysis, stoicism -- name your poison) they might better remember what amulet they already carry to tickle the whales belly. If you haven't escaped the whale's belly, then you probably don't think it even exists. You probably have been there so long, you think the whole world is the belly. That I am some charlatan wandering around the belly selling bogus tickets down the ever-narrowing intestines. I cannot, like the good witch, simply tell you "you've had it all along" and point to your ruby slippers. I am a munschkin saying, "follow the yellow brick road". Don't see the yellow brick road? (see how all these stores are the same?). Then we'll start gathering around the epicenter of the road -- a dizzying spiral of colors -- then all the world of harmless devils will begin spinning and dancing and singing until before you know it you've take a few steps, find solid yellow ground beneath your feet, and have left this munchskin far behind... Okay -- one more -- then I'll quit. Shakespeare's always solid: El Dorado (the lost city of gold) Daily bedight (set out) a gallant knight In sunshine and in shadow Who Journeyed long singing his song in search of El Dorado. But he grew old, this knight so bold And o'er his heart a shadow. Fell as he found no spot of ground that looked like El Dorado. And as his strength failed him at length He met a pilgrim's shadow. "Shadow," said he, "where can it be This land called El Dorado". "Over the mountains of the moon, Through the valley of the shadow, Ride boldly ride," the Shade replied, "if you seek for El Dorado." Rod -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of amazing63 Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Zen] Does Enlightenment Exist? Consider what a bunch of subjective nonsense it is. Some reclusive monk pulls his beard or makes a fist, and the other reclusive monk recognizes his enlightenment and certifies that monk as a member of the Enlightenment Club. Is there such a thing as true Enlightenment? Isn't it just as much a belief or faith as Jesus coming back from the dead and ascending to Heaven? Does Enlightenment exist? Does Heaven? The only people that claim they really know Enlightenment and have been there are also the people who have the most to gain from selling Enlightenment. It is just another Pyramid Scheme. One guy or gal and his/her inner circle at the top claiming to be enlightened, and the grasping acolytes under them lusting to join the Enlightenment Club. They work hard, study, participate, donate, do their zazen, answer the koans, and if they play their cards right, they become "Enlightened." Then they have to hoe their butts some more and become "Teachers" and eventually they might become the Major Domo and lead their own School, Temple, Retreat, Monastery, etc. Sadly, because the Zen folks have the least Heaven to offer, they are usually the most impoverished. But it is still the same deal as any other religion. It is all about jumping the hoops and proving to the next gal on the ladder that you can absorb their dogma and perform like a trained Organgrinder's Monkey. The really amazing thing about Zen is that it is the ultimate joke on those who are skeptics. It looks for the sucker inside all those people who think that they are too smart and/or too agnostic to get suckered by the same old same old. It is like selling virtue to a prostitute. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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