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Being Tarun Tejpal: Tehelka man on sting-ing secrets Anuradha SenGupta / CNN-IBN Published on Sunday , November 04, 2007 at 02:48 in Nation section The recent Tehelka sting operation accusing Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi of directly inciting the 2002 post-Godhra riots in the state has brought on outrage as well as criticism from various quarters in the country. In an exclusive interview, CNN-IBN's Anuradha SenGupta gets the real picture from Tehelka's Editor-in-Chief Tarun Tejpal. Anuradha SenGupta: The truth about Gujarat 2002 in the latest issue of Tehelka makes for horrific reading. But what I am curious about is that is this kind of journalism the only kind of journalism that will help uncover evil? Tarun Tejpal: It's not the only kind but clearly it's the critical kind that we need today. Sting journalism has brought back the juice into journalism, into public interest issues in a democracy as embattled and complicated as India, hard journalism has to remain at the top of the journalistic order. All the difficult and uncomfortable questions have to be front-cased by journalism. That is what sting operations have managed to do. They are not about pretty issues, they are about extremely difficult issues. Anuradha SenGupta: Spy-cam journalism: Is this the only way or is it the easiest way? Tarun Tejpal: It's not the only way. In fact, it is the most difficult way. I don't do any of these things myself. Brave, resourceful, young reporters do them. A good sting requires intelligence, resourcefulness and a lot of courage to do. You are, today, dealing with a public animal who cannot be shamed in any way. You expose somebody's corruption, nothing happens, you expose somebody's misconduct, nothing happens. This must be the first time, as a foreign journalist told me, that mass murderers are on national television saying how they killed, who they killed and who helped them kill and still, there is no action. So you are facing a very problematic situation. In this, you need to use every tool you can lay your hands on. Anuradha SenGupta: The ends justify the means, clearly. Tarun Tejpal: The means are very honourable. At the end of the day you just have to determine the motive and the context. I cannot understand that controversy that is created in a country where billions are spent propagating so much fluff. Thick newspapers have actresses and models, that is fine, but the moment someone does something that is actually in the public wheel, people start making noises about it. Anuradha SenGupta: Why is it happening though? Is it because some sting operations are maligning the technique? Tarun Tejpal: I don't think so. Anuradha SenGupta: Are you comfortable with what Janmat did? Tarun Tejpal: Obviously not. That's like saying are you comfortable with corruption? You're not. That's just a third-rate sting. But you have third-rate politicians. Does that mean you shut down the Parliament? Does the fact that 90 per cent of the newspapers in this country do third-rate journalism mean we shut down newspapers? Anuradha SenGupta: So why are people uncomfortable with it? Tarun Tejpal: Who is uncomfortable with it? Two kinds of people are uncomfortable with it: The ones who have power money, because they run the risk of being exposed. The only ones who would love to have stings banned are the politicians because they are the ones who are exposed. The other is the media who does not have the stomach to do it. The media that is creaming commercial space by doing pure commercial journalism. You can keep run page after page of non-combative, non-exposing kind of journalism and you'll be very happy because advertisements will flow in, readership revenue will flow in, no one will rock the boat, it's a beautiful status quo. It's a conspiracy of silence between all the interested groups and the media is now a part of it. The aam admi loves it, the powerless Indian loves it, he loves the fact that somebody can go out there and nail the system that is crushing him most of the time. Anuradha SenGupta: Are you saying that it's just the bad stings that is making the public queasy on issues of infringing privacy and passing judgment? Tarun Tejpal: Let's correct that. A bad sting is one that infringes on anyone's privacy. Tehelka has a clear red line. Never in our record of 25 major sting operations have we infringed someone's privacy. We are not interested in anyone's private life and forget stings; journalism should not be interested in anyone's private life. In fact TV channels do a third-rate job of it because they are always poking into people's private lives. We've had Aamir Khan's case on TV in the past two days. I don't see why Aamir Khan's issue with his brother and his family is national news. Anuradha SenGupta: I don't think it should have been covered but that's my personal view. Having said that, the point is you also mentioned the conspiracy of silence you are also positioning Tehelka as the David taking on the Goliath of big media, entrenched media but all these guys are the ones you go to sell your sting operation to, isn't it? Tarun Tejpal: We are not positioning ourselves as David taking on the Goliath. Anuradha SenGupta: You are, you just did. Tarun Tejpal: We are a very tiny outfit. We are trying to do a kind of journalism we believe in. It's very difficult to sustain. The great miracle is that we are still around and there are enough people who want us to survive and be around. What I'm talking about is the prevalent media mode. It's not problematic for me alone, it's so for India as it goes forward. Anuradha SenGupta: All the television channel you talked about and I'm not holding a brief for them because I work for one but I can see the holes as many other people can. The point I'm making is that these channels are also using the same methods of investigative journalism and stings. Tarun Tejpal: I have nothing against it. Anuradha SenGupta: So it's not just Tehelka. Tarun Tejpal: No, it's not just Tehelka. Anuradha SenGupta: Sting operations, like the ones you have conducted do land up on the same TV channels and they would not be half as effective if they didn't get the audience of the TV channels. Tarun Tejpal: If Tehelka could afford its own TV channel, we would be running it on it. But Tehelka can barely bring out its weekly magazine. Anuradha SenGupta: Isn't the Tehelka kind of journalism also vigilante journalism. Vigilantism is something I know you not comfortable with yet this kind of journalism can become vigilante journalism, isn't it? Tarun Tejpal: I don't think so. It depends on how you read your society. What's the kind of journalism that you would like to do? An interview with Sharad Pawar or Kareena Kapoor? The problem with the upper middle class of the country is that it's so self-serving all the time that it cannot imagine anyone who works for something other than serving the self. Anuradha SenGupta: Is it frustrating that after all the noise, interviews and all the attention, this material may not end up making a material impact? Tarun Tejpal: If I would say it's not frustrating, I would be lying but it doesn't get us down. Anuradha SenGupta: You said there have been around 25 or so stings, have any of them have … Tarun Tejpal: The Jessica Lall one led to immediate action, Sanjay Dutt led to action. He would have got off completely had it not been for the Tehelka operation. There were many who were very keen to let him go while the others suffered. The Zahira Sheikh case led to Supreme Court intervention so there has been a lot of good action. Due to our history, most of us in the group live in our zone. We understand that we can do just what we can do and that's how we can function. If you allow the disappointment of the inaction over something you have done to get to you, you will stop doing the work. Anuradha SenGupta: A lot of people who worked with you in Tehelka at that point actually really went through a bad time, isn't it? There was no money to pay them, they didn't find jobs very easily. They were also investigated and tailed and all of that. Tarun Tejpal: It wasn't so bad … Anuradha SenGupta: It wasn't so bad for them or it wasn't so bad on the whole? Tarun Tejpal: I don't think they were really investigated. The ones who were investigated were me, Anirudha, the key people, Samuel Mathew and Shankar Sharma. The truth was that an office of 125 people had dwindled to four people in six months because salaries were not paid. I was borrowing money everyday, every week. In my opinion, the Tehelka team that we have today that was formed three years ago is actually five times as good as the old team. I've got some incredible people. The reason for that is that in those 3-4 years we acquired cult status. Anuradha SenGupta: You became the chief evangelist, head, face of that cult isn't it? Tarun Tejpal: I think Tehelka was that and it attracted a lot of high-quality talent. Anuradha SenGupta: Do you think you have become bigger than the brand of journalism? Tarun Tejpal: I don't think so and I hope not. I have not appeared on TV in the last three years. What we are and what I imagine a good publication should be is liberal in their ability to handle different kind of ideas and that's the country, they should be liberal, plural and should believe that the heart should always lie with the underdog. Our attempt is to being stories of people who will never read a magazine to those who ought to know about these stories. Anuradha SenGupta: I think The Indian Express has been doing that for years now. Tarun Tejpal: I think that's great. Anuradha SenGupta: But it doesn't sound as self-righteous as if it's the only custodian of this position in the media as Tehelka does. Tarun Tejpal: I suppose. See, 75 years down the line, we may not be as self-righteous. They still call themselves Journalism of Courage. We only say People's Paper. So it's because I'm being asked what do I think media is. I'm not saying it's the only media which will succeed. It could still fail. Most people don't even still our weekly. They only see us when we break a story that brings the nation to a stop. Anuradha SenGupta: It's those horrible TV channels that come in handy, isn't it? Tarun Tejpal: It's not that. It's the big story that people hear. So that's what people imagine we are. But anyone who follows the weekly, would know. Anuradha SenGupta: Are funds still difficult to come by because the hard days are gone. The Government has changed, the persecution has stopped? Tarun Tejpal: Persecution has stopped but Indians are the most scared people in the world. How much philanthropic impulse to we have? It's not like America where 20 people would back something for it to survive. So we struggle to raise investment all the time. Despite the fact that the brand Tehelka is such a global brand, recognized in towns and villages, there is a reluctance to be associated with us because we are seen as people who create trouble, people who get into the wrong side of power and money. So you have to be pretty so the pretty guys call you. We are not pretty enough yet. But I'm still hoping that there are people out there who will see this as a valuable brand. Anuradha SenGupta: When you started and you did report, you didn't do the kind of journalism that Tehelka is known for today. You were really the books and ideas guy, isn't it? Tarun Tejpal: There is a cycle of reporting which I do when I'm a young, 20-year-old, in Punjab during the secessionist movement. Then I moved to editorial positions which I occupied for a very long time. By the time I left Outlook, which I helped start in '95, though the match fixing story was also done by reporters working with me, I discovered that there is a line which you cannot cross in media companies. That line is drawn by the owners of the companies. When there is an opportunity to be a promoter, we make that move, and from that moment onwards, Tehelka has been doing hard journalism Anuradha SenGupta: So you're saying there's no … I'm trying to get at this Schizoid thing happening and you're saying that there isn't. Tarun Tejpal: I don't think so. I think the literary side of my personality helps immensely in the investigative end of our journalism. In fact, most of the editors in Tehelka are frighteningly well read. Anuradha SenGupta: And write wonderfully. Tarun Tejpal: Yes, some of them are the best writers in Indian journalism. The important thing is that they understand that there is not just the high ground of ideas to be occupied but there is the business of democracy which the media has to be involved in which is about getting into the gutter and dirtying your hands. Anybody's problem with India's elite should be that they have refined themselves out of existence. One of the reasons why I do not have time for Indian writers in English of those kinds is that you can't refine yourself out of the dirty end of democracy. Anuradha SenGupta: Personally, I sometimes feel very overwhelmed with the media onslaught and the incredible amount of bad news and the way it is presented and communicated. Would that make me a vacuous shiny Indian? Tarun Tejpal: If you stayed with that, then it would, I'm, afraid to say. If at times we wish to shut ourselves off, it's understandable. But if we want to shut it out for a week, a month, a lifetime, we're in trouble. As I wrote in my piece, we need to look the beast in the eye. If we don't, they'll be on our back, they are not going to go away. There are battles to be fought and all of us, in our own little ways need to fight our own little battles. Anuradha SenGupta: Your big stings evoke a lot of feedback, some of it negative as well, like you are getting now; for example, allegations of vested interests, of being stooges. Does it get personal and petty or do you say, 'I have done my job', leave it and go ahead? Tarun Tejpal: It is upsetting but as I said we have been inoculated against being upset. For three years we have fought a battle where every Government agency was unleashed against us. But nothing was found against us in terms of the story or our professional lives. That has inoculated us against these easy charges. Indian public life has become like that. People throw charges just like that. We bring proof, they make accusations Anuradha SenGupta: The power circles, the social, literary circles, people who you have exposed, how do you relate to them when you meet them personally? Tarun Tejpal: I smile. The trick is to smile and carry a big gun. So you smile and keep the gun in your pocket. It's never personal, I keep saying that. Even today, I'll say, Narendra Modi is not personal. It's not even finally about him. The story is about an extremely dangerous and poisonous school of thinking that is part of the national blood stream now. Modi or Babu Bajrangi who you see on TV are just products of that kind of thinking. Anuradha SenGupta: It's not personal but what do they do, I'm sure they take it personally. Tarun Tejpal: Well, nobody has spat on me or punched me or tried to kick me and I don't attend that many parties so it's not an issue at all. Anuradha SenGupta: Would I be right in saying that perhaps for you it's almost equal parts: one half shiny idealism, one half the Punjabi macho panga le letein hain spirit? Tarun Tejpal: The Punjabi bit sort of helps me see it through. I would not even go on about the shiny idealism. I think it's a way of looking at the world. We believe a world-view is significant, it needs to stay in the world and we are not the only ones who have this world-view. The Punjabi thing is just that there is an in-born optimist and I think that has helped Tehelka survive. As I told a famous media baron, at the end of the day, I am a mad Punjabi and I'll see them to hell and back. So I think we are doing the right thing and if we are doing the right thing, we deserve to survive. Anuradha SenGupta: You just said you do not have time for Indian writing in English. You are someone who is an Indian writer in English, You have written a book and you are writing another book. What's happening to that side. while you say they co-exist, as an angry man frustrated with the system in which he exists, can you switch off and write? Tarun Tejpal: First a correction. I am neither angry nor frustrated. I'm generally a happy man and I'm doing what I wish to do. Writing is a very small part of my life at the moment. When I go outside India, I'm Tarun the writer but when I'm in India, I'm a journalist, the Tehelka man. Ninety-nine per cent of my life is Tehelka. Yes, a book is in the works. There isn't time to finish it, it has to be sold, delivered. It will come out when it's time comes. At the moment what's important is Gujarat, the story we have done, the next issue of Tehelka. Right now, Tehelka is my one to ten priority. Anuradha SenGupta: We wish you and your one to ten priority Tehelka all the very best. We expect more Tehelka because I think we deserve it. Tarun Tejpal: Thank You. -- Members of the ZESTMedia list exchange news and views about the media in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Maldives and Bhutan. Write to [email protected] If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTMedia by sending a blank mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ Get all ZESTMedia mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], OR, if you have a Yahoo! 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