Hopefully Marc and Stephen can remember to be Christians first, and right

As for being dizzy. Maybe you need to not follow either. Perhaps they are
both wrong, or both right. There isn't always a black and white answer.
They are both giving good reasonings, however issues can go deeper than
they have gone. Issues can even go deeper than they are able, because
many issues are classified and they will not ever in this life know the
reasonings for every American action.  I think we can find questionable
reasonings for every action made by the US, even in our own American
revolution. It's easy to say we were in the right now, since we won.
However, when you look at some of our actions against the loyalists, it
was scandalous. My wife's ancestor was a Tory, and forced back to
Scotland after living decades in Georgia/Alabama. In reality, the
colonialists were rather unfair in their renouncing all taxation, since
the French and Indian War was very expensive and England only wanted us
to pay a portion of the costs.

In the War of 1812, we actually had more reason to go against France than
England, and probably should have. Then there's the Civil War (or War of
Northern Aggression, or War between the States). Did Lincoln have the
right to stop the secession of the Southern States? Did the South have
the right to secede, and if they did, was the manner in which they did it
lawful, or were they required to go through Congress and the courts?

But, I could do the same for many of the Nephite wars, also. Nephi could
be shown to be a very two-faced person, pretending to not want power, yet
sneaking out in the middle of the night with a large contingency, and
stealing the national treasures. 

So let's not be too judgmental on the decisions made by nations. We don't
always know the full reasonings. We often only get one side of the story.
And we often don't understand the entire environment within which
decisions are made.

I don't think America evil because it has made some bad decisions in war.
I think it has made many mistakes, but then I think most of those
mistakes were made in trying to do something better. Kind of like Woodrow
Wilson in his efforts to save Europe by drawing new national lines, ended
up creating national feuds that continue to this day. Do we condemn
Wilson for making the attempt? Or do we realize that there were some
things he just did not foresee.  Do we condemn Clinton for shooting a few
cruise missiles into Afghanistan and Sudan for terrorist actions, or do
we realize that he was acting on the same level other presidents had done
since the early 1970s?

Do we condemn Canada for not becoming a world power in its own right and
step in to be the world's police force, so we could sit back? I don't
think so. Nor should we be condemned when the world continually throws
that responsibility onto us, when we really don't want it. We've asked
the UN to step in several times, then we have to step in to fix it.
Sorry, I'm not going to be so harsh on people, simply because they are
human. Show me some actual evil actions on their part, and I'll consider
condemning those actions. But show all sides of a story, not just the
history-shaded-one-color that some would have us see.

K'aya K'ama,
Gerald/gary  Smith    gszion1 @juno.com    http://www
"No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free."  -
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

I just hate it when Marc Schindler and Stephen Beecroft get too intense 
with each other.  I usually ends in one or the other taking a lengthy
of absence from the list.  And of course, since their contributions are 
among the chief reasons this is such a good list, I really hate to see
Both Marc and Stephen are debating in such fine style that I am undecided

whose side to take.  I am an American, not a Canadian, so on that basis 
perhaps I should move in Stephen's direction.  On the other hand, I have 
been totally disgusted for the last 40 years by the way this once great 
nation deports itself on the international stage, so maybe I should move
Marc's direction.  Then again I am a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-communist,

so perhaps I should move towards Stephen.  I'm starting to get dizzy.

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