Kent Francis writes:

If we look at the Bible as history, the distances involved are less than 500
miles by 100 miles and the area was inhabited by Phoenesian, Philistines, Syrians, Egyptians and other peoples in addition to the Israelites... who were at various times in their history politically fractionated.
Why have we subscribed to the concept that all the native americans were

The various tribes of the Americas (from both genetic and language groupings) are divided into groups:

1. The Eskimo-Aleut groups (10 languages & 85,000 speakers)

2. The Na-Dene - (not related to groups 1 or 3-8)
      North-Western Na-Dene - Haida, Tlingit, & Athabaskan (30 languages)
      Southern Na-Dene - Apache, Cree, & Navaho (130,000 speakers) - arrived
in SW from the north about 1200 AD

583 Amerind languages and groups:

3. Northern Amerind
     a1. Almosan - includes Kutenai, Algonquian, Cree, Ojibwa, and 3 other
languages - Canada & NewEngland
     a2. Keresiouan - includes Keres, Liouan, Iroquoian, Caddoan - Midwest to
Atlantic coast - Cherokee
     b. Penutian - Oregon and Calif, SouthEast , Gulf group -  Pima, Papago,
  SouthernMexico group (Huava, Mixe-Zoque, Totonacan),
  and the Maya in Yucatan and Guatamala same group in NewMexico = Zuni
     c. Hokan - calif & parts of Az

4. Central Amerind
     a. Chibchan sw Mexico, central america south of Yucatan, Venezual &
North  Brazil includes Yanomame & Guaymi.
     b. Paezan (north Florida, Colombia coast, Ecuador, Chilean Andes/coast

5. 20 Andean languages (Quechua and Aymara - Inca empire) Mapuche =

6. Equatorial - Tucanoan 9 groups in western Brazil

7. Eqauatorial Caribbean islands, Uraguay, Venezuala, Ckolombia, Ecuador,
Peru, Central & Eastern Brazil

8. Ge-Pano-Carib - Southern Brazil

By looking at the different distributions of blood allele's in the native
populations sampled, there is a high correlation with both geographical and
lingusitic factors that allow separations into distinct (non-related) groups.

Perhaps when someone dives into the data, we could identify a group that
might in fact qualify for the Nephites that we are looking for... if only one of the three Nephites would drop by for a blood test {8^)...

well let me digress to a former posting I made:

First of all I am NOT claiming that Bolivia is the site for Zarahemla {8^).

I am like everyone else urging caution in jumping to conclusions - however, I am looking for parallels and hints as a way of trying to understand who the Book of Mormon Peoples might have been and where they might have lived.

I don't believe (as many of my ancestors did) that all indians are Lamanites.

I believe that the Book of Mormon may have been a localized account rather
than the history of all of North, Central, and South America. The rise of
the Olmec and Mayan civilizations do correlate to Book of Mormon Histories
of the Jaredites and Nephites/Lamanites; hence the attempt by many to build a geographical correlation in Guatamala. What pointed me in the direction of Bolivia is a chance statement from the Genome project which I have been

First of all, a related article in the popular press which some have reacted
to by stating that "there are no Lamanites here".

(My research is a few years old so there may have been some advances in this

Native Americans may be able to trace heritage to rare gene

Copyright (c) 1996
Copyright (c) 1996 San Francisco Examiner

SAN FRANCISCO (Jan 10, 1996 11:04 a.m. EST) -- All Native Americans
may be able to trace their heritage back to a rare genetic mutation
in one man, passed on about 30,000 years ago to his son and future
descendants, according to new Stanford University research.

A search of more than 500 DNA samples from populations around the
world revealed a mutation on the Y chromosome found only in Indian
populations in North and South America and in Eskimo groups.

This one-time mutation is a genetic footprint of our forebears'
prehistoric wanderings across the Americas -- and is still imprinted
in the genetic code of today's native Americans.

"We think that somewhere back in human history, there was this
unique mutation event," lead researcher Peter Underhill, a research
associate in genetics at Stanford University, said Monday. "It
probably happened only once, on one Y chromosome, and a faithful
copy (of the mutation) was passed on from this father to his son,
and all future offspring."

The mutation is found in samples of blood and hair of people
representing all three far-flung language groups of native
Americans, thought to have split up and gone their separate ways
long ago: Amerind, represented by South American Indians; Na-Dene,
represented by groups such as the Navajos; and Eskimo-Aleut.

Researchers say this suggests that the genetic mutation may have
occurred before the split and subsequent language differentiation --
perhaps among people in Asia before the migration across the Bering
Strait to the New World, or in the Americas very soon after the
migration started.

The mutation has no functional significance and controls no traits,
researchers say.

The discovery by Underhill and his team at Stanford's Departments of
Genetics and Biochemistry is reported in Tuesday's issue of the
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

It is part of an international project called the Human Genome
Diversity Project, an ambitious genetic survey of the world's people
that helps trace the tortuous evolutionary path of early Americans.

Newer findings, not yet published, have identified at least 10
"signature" mutations in other populations around the world, opening
the door to a better understanding of human evolutionary migration.

Underhill and other project scientists are collecting DNA samples
and accumulating data from around the globe that could be analyzed
for decades to come.

Though independent, the Human Genome Diversity Project is
intellectually related and complementary to the Human Genome
Project, a $3 billion international effort to map out the entire
genome of one human being.

Many researchers believe our species evolved in Africa and radiated
over the globe in several waves of migration, starting about 100,000
years ago. According to that "Out of Africa" theory, early humans
first invaded Asia, where they branched off to Australia and Europe
and finally spread throughout the Americas.

Underhill and his team took blood and hair from Navajo, Eskimo,
Mayan and Colombian Indians. White blood cells were transformed into
so-called cell lines: continuously dividing cells that provide a
theoretically infinite supply of genetic material for decades to

These DNA factories offer the chance to conduct studies of
evolutionary, genetic, anthropological or medical questions.


This led some to remark:

>> 3. Mormon culture, and even some Church Presidents have held that the >> Polynesian people are the descendants of Hagoth, a person mentioned in >> the BoM. (See the following.) >> >> 4. All of the evidence available, including some very recent genetic >> studies, as well as archaeological and linguistic evidence, indicates >> that the Polynesian peoples are definitely from Southeast Asia, probably >> Indonesia. There is absolutely no doubt about this.

After the Genome project was reviewed in Scientific American about 1996
I looked up the source. I found there was only one copy of the book in Salt
Lake (Univ of Utah library)((probably because it costs $500)). It contains
the raw data so should be of some interest to those of you who are experts in the field. It is called History of Geography of Human Genes by Luca
Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi, and Alberto Piazza (Princeton Univ Press).
They are doing computer tracking and statistical analysis of 128 different
alleles collected from blood sampling of 491 world populations plus 116
population aggregates extracted as a part of the world study of the origins
of "pure" populations that represent basic racial types around the world. The resultant computer tree maping of populations is used to track genetic
drift in populations and then the resultant data is cross checked with
linguistic analysis and archeological data to come up with verification of
the probable migrations of the basic populations. It was probably the
definitive work available on the subject.

Excuse me while I do some selective quoting - feel free to ignore my
editorial remarks inserted here and there:

>From Pg 303 There is considerable uncertainty regarding the origins of
native Americans and, as is often the case, uncertainty generates
discussion to the point of passion.

>From pg 304 the oldest sites those that are less in dispute are in South
America.  Moreover, there are only a few Siberian sites that may have been
inhabited by pioneers who later occupied North America.  Well- established
Siberian sites are more recent than the oldest American sites...

..on the basis of present evidence a first date of entry was 15 thousand
years ago.  There is substantial agreement on the lack of evidence of
archaic Homo sapiens in America... and there are no finds supporting the
migration to America of human types preceding anatomically modern humans.

In speculating on the passage across the Bering strait, they state:

"Certainly the land bridge is favored as a passage between the continents.
Without it, the passage would have had to have been made by boat, but
direct archaeological evidence of passage by water is difficult to find
and, in this case, has not been discovered."

pg 306 The idea that South America was occupied before the north, either
from the Pacific or the Atlantic Ocean, is difficult for theorists to
accept. (naturally since they only accept a migration from Siberia theory)
... The Pacific islands closest to South America are quite far away and
were occupied only very late, in the last two thousand years.

pg 307 Whatever the first date of entry, it is clear that there was more
than one migration.  The linguistic and biological evidence is discussed
in sections 6.8 and 6.9-6.13

pg 312 The first great civilization was the Olmec (1200-600 B.C) ...

After the decline of the Olmecs (Jaredites?) important cultures and
societies developed in the valley of Mexico (Cuicuilco first, then
Teotihuacan) and the valley of Oaxaca (Monte Alban) where major ceremonial
centers were built.  In Teotihuacan (200 BC-800 AD), the population the
the later period may have been as high as 100,000 for the whole valley of
Mexico, most of it in the capital.

The lowlands of Yucatan and Guatemala were occupied by Mayas... Tikal in
the Guatemalan lowlands and Kaminaljuyu in the Guatemalan highlands began
developing in 30 and 500 BC respectively.  The Mayan culture was strongly
influenced by Teotihuacan.  It was a multicentric, hierachical society,
with each center having majestic religious and cerimonial monuments.  The
major center in the Mayan classical period, Tikal, occupied an area of 60
km2 and had a population of tens of thousands of people.  Outside the
center, the population lived in small hamlets and was more diffuse.  The
classical Mayan period ended abruptly about 900 AD for unknown reasons.

Thus as LDS we tend to focus on Central America but in discussing
sophisticated art forms,

"that of the Chavin culture (northern Peru), spread over a vast area,
without any evidence of political or military occupations.  The Moche site
pictures of the north coast of Peru (200 BC-600 AD) show perhaps the first
hints of organized military activity...  After the collapse of the Moche,
the Huari culture under Tiahuanaco influence established, probably through
military conquest, and empire that lasted until 800 AD.  Other states (eg
Chimu, capital Chan Chan; perhaps 25,000 people) existed  at the time in
the central Andes."  ... then they discuss the rise of the Incas after
1438 (after Book of Mormon times).

Now the quote that caught my eye:

pg 340 In speaking of an anomaly to the general migration patterns of
indigenous peoples that closely relates a native population to a
polanesian culture "Is the white spot in the middle of the Andes near
Bolivia and Peru, an indication of a possible inverse Thor Heyerdahl (1950)
effect, the arrival of Polynesians to South America?"

Obviously much was made by Thor Heyerdahl of the similarities between the
natives of the Lake Titicaca area who made reed boats similar to his Ra
craft.  There are a number of scientific studies going on in this area.  I
turned my search engine onto the words Moche, Tiwanaku, Tiahuanaco, and
Aymara and was inundated with articles on the predecessors to the Inca
civilization.  I am wading thru the material, including a fascinating
article on Aymara as a bridge language used to build a translation
computer program that is 10 times faster than anything else on the market.
"It is a language that was well thought out.  It permits neither irregular
verbs nor exceptions to its few gramatical rules.  The strength of the
language enabled the Aymaras to preserve their cultural identity through
centuries of conquest."

In reading the entry "Bolivia: Golden Rulers of an Ancient
Empire", I found many fascinating to me parallels between Nephite culture
and Inca practices.  Included in the article was the quote:  "Another
legend speaks of certain white and bearded men who advanced from the
shores of Lake Titicaca and established power over the natives and brought
to them civilization." The figure on the Portal of the Sun at Tiahuanaco
looks to me like a representation of Christ coming in his glory holding
two scrolls.

"and they shall become one in thy hands..."


From the study let me drop a couple of quotes & my speculations:

p. 336 "For example 6-phosphogluconate dehydrogenase (PGD) shows a low
frequency of allele B, with some anomalies in north eastern North America and in northern Chile. "

...and at the end of the section on migrations in the History and Geography
of Human Genes: p. 340

"The other dominant migration is found in the southern direction along the

Maybe they landed in Valpariso Chile; Zarahemla was located around Lake
Titicaca, (where incidently there is a north flowing river, and a narrow neck of land dividing the east and west parts of the lake on the southern end) and Moroni and some of his group fled to the NY Cumorah area... Two small populations in a diverse sea of native populations not related to the BofM.

Let me again include exerpts from a former posting:


Kent Francis said:

A couple of years ago I picked up two books from the library which I found
very interesting. One was on ancient Peruvian textiles by James W Reid
(archeologist - not LDS) and the other on deciphering Egyptian Hieroglyphs. It was a real trip for me to read the two at the same time since I found a lot of BofM parallels in the textile examples that were used in the book. Most were from times after the BofM but some examples were from BofM times. For example a quote under a picture of a textile says:

"Paracas Necropolis, South Coast, ca. 700-100 BC Embroidered mantle,
consisting of a central blue area, on which appear 37 figures, and a red
border, on which are depicted additional figures.  The main motifs are
probably shamans eulogizing or invoking the gods."

What stood out for me was the two types of figures - the darker being a
 warrior class carrying spears, and the other being a "tree of life"
(my observation) carrying "priest" group using the Egyptian symbol for peace.

The Chavin de Huantar civilization in the North Highlands, and the Paracas
in the South Coast (Peru/Bolivia/Chile) correspond to the time frame of
the Jaradites while the Mochica and Nasca civilizations (Chariot of the Gods
figures on the plains) correspond to Nephite/Lamanite civilization time
frames. Their main god [corresponding to the Quetzalcuatl (toltec) and Kukulcan (maya) gods] was Viracocha.

"Occasionally the chroniclers give us a clue that is useful in analyzing
textile motifs.  Samiento de Gamboa, for example, in his 1572 Historia de
los Incas, mentions that Viracocha wore a white robe and carried a staff
and book in his hands". (see 3 Ne 19:25)  Yet in the next paragraph he
says "If we exclude the Inca rulers, there do not appear to have been any
specific real-life figures of messianic dimensions in ancient Peru, no
Christ or Buddha.  Nor do we know of any catalytic drama comparable to the
Crucifixion, the focal point of so much Western art." Obviously the author
is not trying to prove the "christ" theme - in fact I think he makes two
mistakes for all his good analysis:  1) he extrapolates the paganistic
culture of the degenerate civilizations to assume that there could not
have been a monotheistic parallel culture, and 2) he misses the "reformed
egyptian" connection to symbolism in the cultures he studies.  Maybe we
should send him a B of M {8^).

I will skip all the analysis of weaving techniques except the following

"Cloth was embroidered, woven, painted, stamped (with seals dipped in
paint), fashioned into delicate net-like gauze pieces and embellished with
brilliantly hued feathers and regal gold and silver ornaments.  These
metal pieces, normally used as thin appliques, owed their pliability to
the annealing processs and their frequently embossed designs to the
repousse technique."  I guess they had the technology to make gold plates

I am sure that "reputable archeologists" won't see the parallels between
the BofM references and Egyptian glyphs in the textiles, but let me just
share a few statements from the text:

the chronicler Francisco de Xeres was enthusiastic about the textiles:
"It is wonderful how highly the cloth is prized in Spain for its
workmanship.  It is looked upon more as silk than as wool".
(398 thread count) - what did the scoffers say about there being no silk?

I don't have room to re-type his whole analysis of The Role of Textiles in
Social Mores except to say I found lots of parallels...Expecially in the
social status of wearing fine clothes, giving them as gifts to flatter,
and the oppression of the poor by witholding clothing. For example:
 "Taking textiles away from bureaucrats who were delinquent in their work,
the chroniclers tell us, was also used as punishment" compare to Alma 14:22
where they took away their clothes when casting them into prision.  I
found strong parallels to his whole chapter with the following quotes from
the BofM:

1 Ne 13:7-8 / 2 Ne 13:6-7 / 2 NE 28:13 / Mos 10:5 / Hel 6:13 / Alma 1:29 /
Alma 21:4 / Alma 31:28, 32:2 / Alma 35:9 / Helaman 4:12 / Hel 13:28 / 4 Ne

Moving on to the icon connection: "So it is with Peruvian textile art. It too is rich in symbolism, in ritual, in magic, in mystery and in mythology; it also is steeped in religious faith, imbued with a profound sense of the cosmic and the divine, and infused with a constant awareness of the synergistic ties between gods and mortals."

Writing about the difference between the Eastern and Western worlds the
author says: "Nor did it have the sort of documented information that has
helped to clarify the development of Western civilization.  The Andean
world had no Bible, no illuminated manuscripts, no written information
recorded on tablets, scrolls or codices, and very few confirmed historical
facts."  Obviously he doesn't know about the BofM.

"that textile art reflects one perpetuating and unifying theme: that of a
pervasive syncretic religious system which appears to have been based upon
a reciprocal, implicitly contractual relationship between man and his
deities.  This was manifested in an iconography whose depictions of
deities confirmed and reinforced that relationship, and in a burial ritual
conceived to venerate and guarantee that tradition.  This religious
content is present from approximately 950 BC on, in the earliest textiles
with consequential iconographic content:  those of the northern highland
religious center of Chavin de Huantar and those from the burial sites of
the Paracas peninsula, some 170 miles to the south of Lima.  It continues
right up until the Conquest, in both highland and coastal cultures, and
although deities differ considerably according to area and period, the
prevalence of a basic metaphysical philosophy is constantly in evidence in
textile iconography."

And more quotes:

"Composite beings are those that combine human, divine, animal and other
characteristics: a human body with an avian head, for example."

"Design surfaces tend to be flat and two-dimensional, rather like
Egyptian frescos"

"It is very often not clear if human motifs are mortals venerating
deities, in acts of worship, whether they are actually gods in
anthropomorphic form or whether they are "god impersonators."  The
position of outstretched arms, for example, which is so common in textile
iconography, suggests both invocation and benediction."

I found one of the textiles with the "god" figure having upraised arms and
surrounded with "serpent" symbols to be strangely evocative of the Nephite
fascination with the Moses and the serpents incident to symbolize Christ.
see Alma 33:19-22 & Hel 8:14-15

"Once an object assumes such a simplified or stylized format that its
original identity becomes subordinated to its usefulness as a decorative
shape, we are dealing with a second category of oconography: symbols
composed of pictographs and ideograms.  Although the majority of
pre-Columbian Peruvian peoples used symbols to some degree in their
iconography, it is in the Tiahuanaco, Huari and Inca cultures that this
tendency is especially pronounced." (around lake Titicaca in late BofM
times) - See Mormon 9:32-35 for a discussion of reformed egyptian writing.

The Peruvian Victoria de la Jara concluded in 1967 that "Inca writing is a
logographic system using symbols to represent entire words that can be
understood without considering the pronunciation" She and the
cryptologist Thomas Barthel have reportedly deciphered some 40 of the 400
ideograms which they believe they have identified in Peruvian textiles.
However, a more comprehensive analytical contribution has been the
relatively recent work of William Burns Glynn, author of "The Calculating
Table of the Incas and the Key to Deciphering the Secret Writing of the
Incas". Details of Glynn's methodology are complex and far beyond the
scope of this brief text, but the outlines can be briefly synthesized.
His basic theory combines phonetic and pictographic aspects, and posits a
relationship between the sounds of the numbers in Quechua and a Quechua
alphabet which Glynn presupposes contains ten consonants only; vowels, he
suggests, must be interpolated." ... and so forth... it sound remarkably like the system of language that the Hebrews/Nephites used. He continues on
and later discusses his concept that the symbology was ancient as follows:
"Empirical evidence, however, does not adequately support this hypothesis
of a chronological stylistic development, since non-figurative textile
designs occur as early as the Paracas period."

Well, that should whet your appetite and provide plenty of points of


John W. Redelfs wrote:The site, called Caral, lies not in Egypt, but 120
miles north of Lima, Peru, and 12 miles inland from the Pacific Ocean in the foothills of the Andes Mountains. Last week archeologists announced that it dates from 2627 B.C., the same era when Egyptian slaves were building the Great Pyramids and a full 1,500 years before scientists thought urban civilization began in the New World. "This is the oldest human settlement of any social complexity ever found in the Americas," says archeologist Ruth Shady Solis of San Marcos National University in Lima, who led the excavation. Caral may therefore be "the birthplace of New World civilization," says archeologist Winifred Creamer of Northern Illinois University, a member of the team.

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