Well Stacy everyone is in the same boat to one degree or another.  We too
often talk about our freedom without ever considering what that would mean
in an absolute sense.

True perfect freedom only comes with perfect knowledge and understanding.
When we have anything less our complete freedom suffers.

George


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stacy Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ZION] freedom versus free agency


> Who is really free?  I don't consider myself free.  Freedom has become a
> silly joke in my case.  Everyone always wants to know where I'm going,
when
> I'll be back, even what I eat.
>
> Stacy.
>
> At 09:31 AM 09/01/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >Although I concur with your comments I find the use of the term "Free
> >Agency" to be a poor choice of words.  Notwithstanding it has become a
> >popular term in the church.  Rather the idea of Moral Agency is the more
> >useful and I believe correct term.
> >
> >Freedom is a part of Moral Agency, but only a part.  Intelligent action
> >based on an understanding of God's will and the consequences of action is
> >also a crucial part of Agency.
> >
> >You are correct when you identify the tremendous barriers, in this life,
to
> >a proper use of this crucial and eternal principle.  I do not believe
that
> >it is possible to truly exercise perfect agency in this life - for
anyone,
> >although some have a better opportunity than others.  The last chance we
had
> >to excursive perfect agency was in the pre-existence in the presence of
God.
> >That is why that choice was so crucial - it set the stage for all that
> >happened subsequently.
> >
> >George
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Jim Cobabe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:16 AM
> >Subject: [ZION] freedom versus free agency
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Free agency is an inviolable gift from Heavenly Father.  Each of us
has
> > > absolute free agency to make choices for good or evil.
> > >
> > > Our freedom, on the other hand, is constantly subjected to bounds and
> > > conditions and restrictions.  Our freedom is constrained by natural
> > > laws, by self-imposed restrictions, by the impositions of other
> > > individuals, and by society in general.
> > >
> > > What is the effect of free agency in the absence of absolute freedom?
> > > What if government laws constrain my free exercise of choice?  Perhaps
> > > Heavenly Father will judge my decisions based on what I would have
done
> > > had I been completely free to act.
> > >
> > > In 2 Nephi 2:16, we read that enticement is a necessary element in our
> > > decision-making exercise of free agency.  What does it mean to be
> > > "enticed" in choosing between good and evil?  Is the test of mortal
> > > probation in part intended to demonstrate (to myself) which choices
are
> > > most "enticing" or attractive to me personally?  I assume that
Heavenly
> > > Father already knew my inclination toward good or evil choices, but
that
> > > it was something I needed to learn for myself.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Jim Cobabe
> > >
> > >
>
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