Oh -

well I had a hearing test this morning - passed perfectly in spite of my
wifes contention that I am going deaf - guess I need to check my reading
skills a bit closer.

I am so used to having someone disagree that it just came naturally to me.

George

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Spencer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go


> Hmmm, need new glasses, George.  I quote:
>
> "I strongly agree with George on this issue of suicide."  (note that
little
> word "agree.")
>
> So it is indeed good that you are having trouble seeing where we
> disagree!!!! :-)
>
> Jon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Cobabe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 11:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go
>
>
> > Jon, I am having trouble seeing where we disagree.  I think you have
> stated
> > the case very well.
> >
> > The basic answer to the original question is that the person who
committs
> > suicide is not to be judged by anyone other than God.  And there is no
> > automatic assignment to some lessor kingdom because of the act.
> >
> > George
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jon Spencer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 8:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go
> >
> >
> > > I strongly agree with George on this issue of suicide.  Just as with
any
> > > other transgression of law, intent is an important factor.  I don't
know
> > > about anyone else, but I sometimes have a hard time figuring out what
my
> > > state of mind is, much less anyone else's.  There is no set rule for
> many
> > > things.
> > >
> > > For example, we know that murder is the spilling of innocent blood.
> What
> > if
> > > a criminal is holding many people hostage and is about to kill one of
> > them.
> > > A sniper tries to shoot the killer, but somehow kills a captive
instead.
> > > This is certainly the spilling of innocent blood, so its murder,
right?
> > Is
> > > it?
> > >
> > > What about someone who is so mentally unbalanced at some moment that
> they
> > > commit suicide, where there is no way that they would do so under
normal
> > > circumstances.  Are they really exercising agency in the same manner
> that
> > > they would if they cheated on their husband (and you thought I was
> talking
> > > about a man!)?  I don't think so, but my opinion is irrelevant.  She
> will
> > be
> > > judged by someone with perfect knowledge.  I am quite happy to leave
> that
> > > judgment to someone qualified to make it, because I am most certainly
> NOT
> > > qualified to make it.
> > >
> > > Jon
> > >
> > > George Cobabe wrote:
> > >
> > > > No.  You and I are not in a postion to make such judgements and
should
> > not
> > > > do so.  Can you imagine telling the family of such a victim this
> > > > speculation?  You do not know the circumstances or the state of mind
> of
> > > such
> > > > a person and cannot understand the judgement that will be offered to
> > them.
> > > >
> > > > Comments may be found to the contrary, but the thinking and practice
> on
> > > this
> > > > subject has changed a great deal in the past number of years in the
> > > church.
> > > >
> > > > I have a friend whose father was a successful businessman, with a
> lovely
> > > > family, a great contributor to charity and whose name is prominently
> > > > displayed as a major contributor to BYU.  He had the world by the
tail
> > by
> > > > any standard.  He was the Bishop of a singles ward and when released
> > from
> > > > that calling went into a depressive period which ended when he took
> his
> > > > life.
> > > >
> > > > The Apostles, yes plural, which spoke at his funeral make it clear
> that
> > > you
> > > > should not judge him unwisely or harshly.  I would take their advice
> on
> > > this
> > > > matter.
> > > >
> > > > George
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Stacy Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 3:41 AM
> > > > Subject: [ZION] Where Suicides Go
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I am now positive that if one kills himself he will end up as a
> > > telestial
> > > > > being.  Am I right on this point?
> > > > >
> > > > > Stacy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> >
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