Yes, but using timestamps also means:
- we're dependent on the system clock being accurate for no good reason
I'm hoping that Jeremy or Tim will chime in, since we considered switching
to integers a while back.
Not much to say here. It's not true that correctness in recent
versions of ZODB depends on the system clock being accurate; and
FileStorage.__init__ logs messages about seeming "time travel" because
users (not ZODB) get confused if tids don't bear a close relationship
to true wall-clock time.
Or at least that's the theory ;-) That Chris /is/ seeing timestamp
reductions suggests something may be broken, although Jim & I did
eyeball review of all seemingly revelant code paths for days a year or
so ago, and didn't find anything that looked even vaguely suspicious.
Philosophically, I'm a fan of making things as general as /necessary/,
rarely as general as /possible/. We need /some/ idea of monotonically
increasing time regardless. If that can also serve for transaction
identifiers and object revision identifiers, "why not?" is the first
question I ask. Less stuff to go wrong the fewer the concepts.
- under high load, we have to deal with the possibility of duplicate
This is not the case. A storage guarantees that time stamps are unique,
incrementing time stamps, if necessary, to do so.
Which is a way of dealing with duplicates, so I'll take Chris's point.
It's in fact very likely that successive calls to time.time() will
deliver exactly the same value on Windows, so the "increment time
stamps, if necessary" code gets exercised fequently on Windows even
when the system clock is 100% healthy (well, not so much in production
code, but in the test suite some parts generate transactions at very
But, Chris, in this sense we have to "deal with the possibility of
duplicates" using /any/ form of identifier. A real advantage of using
time.time() as a /starting guess/ is that it's quite likely to deliver
unique /starting guesses/ in production code (and even on Windows) all
by itself. If you want to use integers instead, then you need harrier
code, and have to resort to a hand-managed mutex in the end.
Of course that's doable -- but why bother? If there's some path in
ZODB that's failing to handle duplicates now, despite that all paths
definitely /intend/ to make duplicates impossible, there's no reason
to imagine that the hairier code needed to prevent raw-integer
duplicates would somehow be more reliable. (OK, I'll confess that I
don't consider the timestamp duplication-prevention code to "be hairy"
because it's coded in C -- this is partly an "out of sight, out of
mind" illusion -- but even so, the C code doing this is
I'm wondering why we take on those issues rather than just use an
incrementing integer sequence instead?
As above, I don't believe that's actually easier, or more reliable, in
any relevant sense.
Note that originally, transaction ids were not required to be
based on time stamps. In fact, I don't know that they are required
to be based on time stamps and I don't know where to find this out. :(
While I mostly care whether there's a killer-strong reason /not/ to
base them on time as a starting guess. If there isn't,
YMTYGTNIBNHSFSWTF (you may think you're going to need it but nobody
has so far so WTF ;-)).
(ZODB is really in need of some Zope3-style cleanup, without
Zope3-style reimplementation and refactoring.)
My original intent was that transaction ids would be opaque strings.
Note that, until MVCC, transaction ids were largely internal implementation
details of storages.
IMO the code got easier to follow when the distinction between tids
and serials went away, and doing so eliminated more possibility of
nasty bugs due to confusing them.
With MVCC, transaction ids have to be monotonically increasing
and must be the same as serials.
Right, the code relies on those heavily, and in particular the ZEO
cache (which potentially needs to store multiple revisions of each
object, and needs to order revisions by commit order -- "time" works
fine for that too).
Long ago, in a fit of laziness on my part, we began leveraging the
fact that serials were time stamps to display object modification times.
Which proved to be extremely useful for debugging and analysis. All
If we switched to integers, this would break. This isn't to say that we
shouldn't fix this, but doing so would entail some significant disruption.
I would go so far to say that the benefit isn't worth the cost for
While I would go so far as to suggest there may well be no real
benefit at all. It's hard to imagine opening a new ZODB for Christmas
and exclaiming "oh boy! transaction ids are /finally/ meaningless
bags of bits! how did we ever manage when printing one was
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