Alexander Limi wrote:
And that differs from other Plone releases how exactly? ;-)
And what, exactly, have you done to help Plone have less bugs?
*sigh* there's not a lot I can do, the problems with Plone are cultural.
There seems to be a pervasive culture of monkey patching and
bludegeoning code to meet functionality requirements while not worrying
about software architecture, refactoring, scalability or performance
except in passing fads. Yeah, sure it works out of the box like it
should, and it has all the checkbox features, and it even looks pretty
if that's the look you like, but try and do anything that doesn't ship
out of the box and _doesn't_ involve the aforementioned code blugeoning
and you end up with a solution that will only work for your specific
project because of the Plone-wide assumptions you have to break to get
it done. Either that or not give a damn about performance or
maintainability and "just make it work". Sure, it'll work for a few
releases without change if you're lucky, but it'll likely be dog slow
and pig ugly if you look behind the scenes. I'm sorry, that kind of
coding just doesn't interest me. But, inspite of that, you will see the
odd change I've made to try and help, and I try and provide simple tools
like zdb, Stepper, MailingLogger, SimpleUserFolder and MailTemplates
that people are free to use without any obnoxious GPHell licensing and
without having to worry about some semi-formed ip assignment that may or
may not stand up in any given court of law around the world.
you get income from Plone consulting, how about making your workday
better *and* pay back for the stuff you get for free?
Because I can't. The win's we've had on the one big Plone-related (and
there's not _much_ of Plone actually left now, sorry to tell you)
project I work on have been by stripping out all the complexity so that
code meets the _project_ requirements and doesn't worry about
interacting with any of the myriad of Plone half-interfaces and semi
finished rubbish that gets shipped as part of every release.
You are seriously starting to piss me off, Chris
Don't worry, the quality of code that ships in the Plone bundle has
already done much to take me way beyond pissed off. I find it a tragedy
that a project with such a large following can't manage to get anyone
capable of actually standing back and taking a good hard look at the
quality of some of your key components and sorting it out rather than
tacking on the next whizz-bang feature in a similarly half-arsed manner.
>- as the only person
in the Zope world so far. An achievement in itself, but not one you
should be particularly proud of.
Honestly, I'm sorry you feel that way but at least I make the
distinction about what it is I'm pissed off about. The people in the
Plone community are great, and I get on with the majority of them very
well as far as I know, but sadly, that alone doesn't make them write
good software. I am pissed off with the _software_ not the _people_ and
if I thought there was a sane way I could make things better, I would.
But again, honestly, I think the software that currently makes up Plone
above the CMF, and even that could do with a good kick, is beyond help
and would only really be improved by a ground-up rewrite.
And finally, if you're pissed off with me, that's fine, I don't really
give a monkeys how you feel towards me personally. Write some good
software, then I might ;-)
PS: Sorry for the rant, I was hoping to avoid this heading to a list but
the one liner I posted earlier was as good as I could make it, I even
put the smiley in ;-) For Alex to reply like this has now got the
response it deserved. Really, I was excited to try Plone 2.1 with all
the hype about the quality being so much better and improved
performance, but having just had to give up on another project involving
Plone 2.1 and LinguaPlone because it was way too slow, particularly on
Windows, and trying to fix any of the problems I found felt like playing
some sick and twisted version of whack-a-mole, not to mention the fact
that Plone still ships with failing unit tests that cause other
product's unit tests to fail means that while I have loads of respect
for the project in managing to grow such a large community, and
particularly for the people who have the patience to take part, I have
zero respect for the software that underpins it...
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org
See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests