Previously Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
> Hash: SHA1
> On 6 Jul 2007, at 17:22, yuppie wrote:
> >Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> >>Previously Tres Seaver wrote:
> >>>yuppie wrote:
> >>>>Tres Seaver wrote:
> >>>>>yuppie wrote:
> >>>>This is not about making the implementation easier. This is  
> >>>>about defining what utilities are. If they provide self.REQUEST  
> >>>>they become a utility-view monster that has not much in common  
> >>>>with Zope 3 utilities. Reducing Zope 2 magic to a minimum if we  
> >>>>use Zope 3 technology is a good thing - even if that forces us  
> >>>>to be more explicit about required REQUEST arguments.
> >>>That's fine, but just means that we have to invent *new*  
> >>>utilities and
> >>>change application code to begin calling the new APIs:  right now,
> >>>nobody in the wild expects to pass a REQUEST to most of those  
> >>>methods.
> >>>
> >>>Once the replacement utilities are available, we can start  
> >>>deprecating
> >>>the "tool-ish" APIs.  Note that such a change is *way* too late  
> >>>in the
> >>>release cycle for 2.1.
> >>Aren't we talking about a post-2.1 roadmap now?
> >
> >Well. The 2.1 changes are based one the assumption that we switch  
> >quickly and completely to utilities, making all tools work as  
> >utilities. The roadmap proposed by Tres means it will take several  
> >years and we'll have to work with tools and utilities side by side  
> >for a long time.
> Speaking about roadmaps, we have had several mailing list discussions  
> in the past where future plans or intentions get stuck in the list  
> archives, but nowhere else. That makes it hard to keep track of  
> actual development or bug fix tasks.
> Can I suggest that we also use the CMF collector to capture specific  
> tasks? For example, knowing that tool FOO cannot be made a utility  
> and the decision that we should go forward and create a new utility  
> to replace the tool we should have a collector entry for the task  
> "develop FOO utility". Makes it much much easier to keep track of  
> what's left to do to reach the more generic goals on the roadmap.



Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>    It is simple to make things.                   It is hard to make things simple.
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