I've been around the Zope/Python scene for many years. One thing I see this group suffer I believe if from the groupthink mentality. Imho Alexander Limi "2 cents worth" demonstrated Erik's point perfectly. applaud the effort made with plone. I believe it to be a spoon in which we can spoon feed newbies into the CMS side of the Zope way. Seem my post regarding Zopezen.org. Plone is slow. Zope with CMF is slow... Not as slow as plone, but the issue is with ZPT. There is no way around it Erik is right. Developer time being spent on speeding up plone in order to backport the improvements to Zope/CMF sounds... Well arse backwards. Plone has its place, but I suspect some doublespeak here, lets be realistic about it. I debated a long time ago about CMS being the core of Zope anyway, but lo and behold they pushed on with a "CMF" product. I see plone as being the same, a product. Now my understanding is that with Zope3, they will roll a lot of the CMF functionality into Zope3.... Hmm go figure? All that time wasted on maintaining 2 products Zope/CMF has proven cumbersome at the least imho. Now just imagine if the community would have listened to the lone voice James-then/Erik-now where we would be today. We all know that the decision back then was based on commercial interest for ZC and others trying to market some industry catch phrase.
So I hear you Erik, you have these wonderful, bright people working on special interest projects, but not on the core issues that allow Zope to have that strong core that it needs to move it forward. With it being evident in how the "Release early/Release often" mantra has been thrown to the wayside, I'm left wondering what do I do next with my 2.5.1 site? Do I go the plone, 2.6, 2.7 or 3.0 route? Like I said before, as a qoute from Mr limi" you should not mix in the >Plone name if you do not intend to follow our guidelines. "TM. Plone is a major benefit to the community. Please keep up the good work and effort. I believe that the master minds behind it all should be working to make Zope3 a reality for the plone product and not the other way around, hence you'll screw up mixed-up people like me even more. I hope I'm making some sense with this. I understand that this is "free" software, but as I "community" we should work toward making sure that we all can have a voice and benefit from plone/zope 2.5-2.6-2.7-3.0/CMF/Thingy. I'm sure I'll have to take a loan out on this, because it's more than 2 cents worth ;-). Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html At 05:08 PM 10/2/02, Alexander Limi wrote: ><quote who="Erik Lange"> > > > In the install-script for MMM Skins, we call it a "plone rip-off"... > > I've suggested that we change the product name to "Plone skin" to Alan, > > to recognize the fine work of Plone, and to make it clear what it is: A > > skin that gives your CMF-site a Plone-look, and nothing more... > >As one of the two designers of the Plone skin, I thought I would send you >my 2 cents on this. Most welcome ! :-) >Not to be harsh, but calling your skin anything with Plone would just >cause confusion, as it has none of the distinguishing marks of the >original look, apart from the blue color. Nevertheless people constantly assumes that we use Plone on our sites... so it must have something in common with the Plone 'thingy' ... Check: http://www.mmmanager.org/Members/erla/1018802975267402990/talkback/1018829961 >You break almost every consistency rule and design decision in your skin, Yep - the rules set up by Plone - not the rules of CMF ;-) That was what leed us to make the product in the first place... >and it is nowhere near being Plone, neither from a usability nor a design >perspective. Nope - and we're proud of that ;-) >I will not comment further on this, I find this discussion a bit >far-fetched. Plone is a separate entity, and you should not mix in the >Plone name if you do not intend to follow our guidelines. I agree :-) And we don't intend to follow your guidelines.. sorry.. but why should we ? How about "CMF Zlone skin" for a name ? ;-) Or "CMF BTTF Skin" ? BBTF = back to the future ;-) Is it okay that we thanks Plone.org for the inspiration and basic layout in the next release ? Or should we simply just blame it all on Canada ? *ROTFL* Regards, Erik _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )