> > But with some good people switching channels,
> > will Zope still end up a major player in the market?
>Unfortunately from my forays into the non-Zope (or Plone) into the CMS
>market I dont think Zope is anywhere near a major player. I just don't
>understand why working on Plone is considered switching channels. When I
>developed the CMFZen skin was that switching channels? Is Squishdot?

   I can only wonder and speculate why it's not a major player in the 
market.  I've been around long enough in the industry to see free products 
such as winamp, MIRC, Linux, PK-Zip and others that have actually become 
like standards in their areas.  I equate switching products to switching 
channels because look how CMFZen is changing, and what in the hell ever 
happened to Swishdot?!?

  Please don't get me wrong, products like squishdot, CMFZen, and others 
have steered me towards Zope.  They are fine examples of the things that 
make Zope appealing.  But if you really think about what I'm saying you 
might understand my meaning.  Zope-->is to MTV and Plone --> is to VH1.  
Squishdot--> is to CMT.

  Now this analogy is not a hard and fast rule, so you can mix and match 
whatever Music television stations are in your area to whatever zope product 
you like.  The point is they are all music stations, and some even try to be 
more.  I believe MTV is the number one worldwide.

  Now I'm relating Zope to MTV back when it was new and first came out.  It 
was all music 24 hours a day.  First it was pop/rock and then they added 
like Rap and other styles.  Next thing you know you have other "music" 
stations that cater to specific niche groups.

  Even if you have a picture in picture(PIP) television can you really 
comfortably watch two stations at once?  No, so if you watch, support and 
become a fan of Country Music Television, how much time is taken away from 
the original MTV?  Imho until Zope has achieved the market share and the 
place where is should be, Then the other stations(products) become more 
valuable as alternatives.

>Whenever I speak to anyone about Plone I mention Zope in the first 
    Lets now examine that sentence, aha but you mention Plone before you 
mention Zope? ;-)

   It was at first tricky to get the Zen of Zope.  Then you had to learn the 
Zen of CMF,  Now there is a need for the Zen of Plone.  I got two old 
sayings, one is I think some people might be "Putting the cart before the 
horse" and "Too many cooks, spoil the broth"


>Perhaps, but how will you know until you try? There's more than one reason 
>project goes under and in some ways Plone is quite different.

   That's what they all say.  I've tried, but to say the least Plone is an 
ambitious project.  But I have to agree with Erik how much or how little are 
you planning on porting to a stock zope/cmf product with what you do with 

> >    I smell commecial interest here.  I smell people trying to make that
> > killer project hoping to make it big, instead of centering around the 
> > vehicle that will help make a bunch of projects big someday.
>I won't deny it. I believe I can sell Plone and I'm not sure I can sell 
>as easily. Its a simple fact that I have to sell what the clients want: if 
>spend all my time concetrating on Zope innards, I doubt I'll be able to pay
>the mortgage. In the last 3 months 75% of my clients have come to me for
>Plone, in one case I steered them to a solution in Zope because I felt it
>was a more appropriate solution.

  All I can say is selling products such as Plone, medzope,or whatever makes 
sense for sure. Even if it's just consulting gigs for the Free versions.  
But if I can guess what the market will do, then the market will either 
open-source or make free their products to stop any serious damage to their 
share of the market.  Right now they are like Microsoft.  As long as they 
are making money why give it away free?
  Only time will tell.  Btw I'm just trying to present alternative ideas on 
the table.

-- James
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