On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 06:04:33PM +0200, Dirk Datzert wrote:
> 
> > I will be honest here.  I don't care a lot about how the debian files
> > are packaged, or where.  But I do not want to see two sets of debs with
> > differing layouts.  
> 
> Not only talking about debs distro layouts. There should be one install
> instruction for all linux distros, which takes care about FHS. This
> should be official published under zope.org. On this base an RPM can
> build.
> 
> If installation places changes from 2.4.4/2.5.1 to 2.6 than it simple 
> changes. A notification mail on RPM install can tell that to the user.

Yes, but...
user migration is not the real issue.  Packager migration is more
important.  I mean, look, a debconf question, or a post-install question
could ask whether the user wanted his location maintained, and build a 
symbolic link, or it could move the data.

The SuSe model might work very well for SuSe, but it will not work well
for Debian.  Debian has a strong tradition of in-place upgrades, and
more importantly, requires a lot of internal coordination; there are
more than 30 packages dependent on the current debian zope layout, and
probably more than 20 maintainers.  Changing the location that packages
are installed in (currently /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/Products) would
probably require 30 days or so.

Again, I see no advantage, even if file location is identical, to there
being more than one repository of .debs for zope.  And I would think
that zope.org would agree.  Debian has a very substantial set of mirrors
over which to distribute the load.  Zope.org would have to pay for much
bandwidth on days that new .debs came into being (much deb pulling is
automated, so it is much more spiky than .rpm pulling).

Moreover, having more than one such repository will simply create
problems for end users.  Either we will have a repeat of the ximian
debacle, where it was almost impossible to get new, upgraded packages
from the canonical repositories (and this included security upgrades!),
or we will see that most users are not running the zope.org packages
anyway, since their revision numbers will differ (and probably be
lower).

And frankly, doing debian packaging right is a PITA, and doing it almost
right is pretty pointless.  

I have no opposition to an attempt to standardize the location of 
ZOPE_HOME and LOCATION_HOME.  (I also don't see it as that big a deal,
people to whom this matters, who are presumed capable enough to be 
trusted with the root password, should be capable of reading
/usr/share/doc/zope/README.Debian.gz.)  But, if zope.org wishes 
to maintain a set of .deb packages, then zope.org really, really, 
needs to become the official debian packager (and hence the suggestion 
that Chris become an official debian developer); or they really, really 
need to stay out of it, and simply point debian users elsewhere.

Now, if I wanted to have a debian related wish, it would be that there be a
robust ZOPE_HOME2 into which one puts local products and products 
not installed via .debs (probably /usr/local/lib/zope/python/Products,
although the python may not be needed).

Jim Penny

> 
> Distro maintainer like SuSE doing that this way. 
> 
> Regards,
> Dirk
> 
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