On Fri, 2005-03-18 at 14:44, Brian Lloyd wrote:

> It won't turn into a fork. Right now there is a lot of discussion 
> going on about the 'right' way to manage Z3 releases -- we'll need 
> to decide on a Z2 release policy that takes that into account. I 
> think the goal for Z2 will be to include the latest stable z3 
> possible. Some have suggested synchronizing the releases - that 
> may be the way to go if it isnt impractical from an operational 
> point of view. 

It'd be nice to get this thought out before dependencies creep in,
although I realize it's the wild west out there and all planning goes
out the window as time marches on, so maybe not an effective use of time
to come up with a grand master plan.

> In any case, the goal is to gradually (but consistently!) make 
> more and more Z3 functionality available to Z2 developers in 
> future Z2 releases, based on the most stable Z3 baseline possible.
> > Please correct me if I'm wrong here but I get the sense that Five is
> > less of a "migration path" from Z2 to Z3 than a way to integrate Z3
> > technologies (like views and adapters) into Z2 right now.  Obviously
> > allowing Z2 developers to use these things will give them a 
> > some needed
> > familiarity with Z3 if they decide to switch but the migration path to
> > "straight Z3" will always be more or less a rewrite, no?
> It is definitely a migration path. Lets say you have an application based 
> on Z3 with 10 (logical) components. You couldn't feasibly rewrite all of 
> it at once to use Z3. As of 2.8, you'll be able to add functionality to 
> your application using adapters, views, etc. So for V.Next of your app, 
> maybe you are able to port 2 existing components and add 1 new one. For 
> V.Next.Next, you add 2 more and port 2 more. At some point, it *will* 
> be feasible to jump to Z3 with a minmal effort, since you've been able 
> to port your application to components over time.

OK.  I still think advertising Five as a migration path is a bit
optimistic but I doubt anything would cure skepticism about this other
than seeing what you describe actually happen, so only time will tell.

> > > I *do* expect these (good) questions to recur in future Z2 
> > > releases, as integration and ability to use Z3 technologies 
> > > increases, but we'll have plenty of time to work those out.
> > > 
> > > For now, I think it is a huge win to make some Z3 avenues 
> > > available to people who want to use them, without forcing 
> > > everyone to drink the kool-aid at once ;)
> > 
> > Yup... I'm still a bit skeptical but if other folks are committed to
> > maintenance I'd be less so.
> Skepticism is healthy, but if it's any consolation, almost everyone 
> involved in this effort has very real 'skin in the game' in terms 
> of existing Zope2 investments. I think that will do a great deal 
> to ensure that the decisions made for future 2.x work are sane and 
> take real-world concerns into account.

Yup I hope so too...

- C

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