[ Philipp von Weitershausen ]:

> It's not about sacrificing the Zope-the-app-server brand. It's actually
> about growing it in the sense that it becomes much clearer WHAT THE HELL
> Zope actually is. Or can you explain what Zope is in one sentence?

But it all comes down to the depths (or shallowness) of defining 'explain'.
There is at least one definition of 'explain' where a Zope definition
could take less than a page or a book. ;o)

 A middleware for building web applications from an integrated pack of
 servers (HTTP, FTP, XML_RPC, WebDAV), databases (OO, Relational) and
 engines (language and template).

> I surely can't. I currently need more than a page in my book.

Which I have and consider a good book by the way.

The important thing I'd like to say is that Zope *is* a brand
here in Brazil. Companies identify themselves having expertise
in Zope and Plone technologies. Not just the former or just the latter.
Even though there are clients looking for Plone, they know (at least
most of us make sure they do) that Zope is needed.

> Rocky Burt is right, the naming actually confuses the heck out of
> people. In that sense, Zope X3 was not such a bad idea that it clearly
> said that Zope 3 is totally different. Just the 'X' itself standing for
> 'eXperimental' was bad Zope3-marketing in itself, so we dropped it.

Yes, I could not agree more that some effort must be taken to clear up
the confusion about Zope versioning for both developers and client users.
But specially for newcomer-developers, those who do not follow closely
the community activity get bitten by Zope version-diversity: 2.8.x, 2.9.x and 

> I will also note that Jim's proposal is really not a lot about naming
> (he wants to stay out of it) but about focusing effort in ONE
> application server and ONE set of reusable libraries.

That is very welcome indeed!

> efforts seems to suggest to come up differnet names for the two things,
> but that doesn't mean they can't still be related in a brand naming
> sense (e.g. Zope and zopelib or somethign like that).

I acknowledge the importance of whatever name is chosen, a direct reference
to Zope is desirable.


Rod Senra

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