I've created a variant of the script I used to generate the results referenced in my original message within this thread.


The new variant attempts to "easy_install" each cheeseshop project that has 'zope' in its author metadata (found via the cheeseshop's search XML-RPC interface) into a "pristine" virtualenv. This mimics what end-users would see if they attempted to install Zope-related packages from the cheeseshop without using zc.buildout.

I'll set this up to run every few days. I'll attempt to send its output to zope-coders.

- C

On Nov 13, 2007, at 4:29 PM, Chris McDonough wrote:

I've created a bot process (see
http://svn.repoze.org/playground/trunk/chris/zopesvnchecker/ checker.py)

- checks out the "trunk" subdir of each top-level directory in

- if the resulting directory does not have a "setup.py", we skip the

- if the resulting directory does have a setup.py, we create a
  temporary virtualenv with setuptools installed and run the
  virtualenv's bin/python passing it "setup.py install".

- We capture the results of the install, and print a summary.

The "summary" results are at
http://www.plope.com/static/misc/checker_results.txt .  The "details"
pickle generated by the script is at
http://www.plope.com/static/misc/results.pickle .

My analysis of the results are these:

 - A version conflict exists in a low-level dependency between a
   requirement for zope.traversing 3.4.0 and a requirement for
   zope.traversing>=3.5.0a1.dev-r78730 when installing many zope.*
   eggs using "setup.py install" (and easy_install), making it
   impractical for non-Zope people to actually install most of the
   interesting and released zope.* modules.  This conflict needs to
   get fixed.  Additionally, some modules (like zope.pagetemplate)
   should not fail with this dependency error in the first place;
   instead their dependencies need to become less conservative.

 - The only 10 packages (out of 80) in the zope.app namespace can be
   easy_installed.  All the others fail with the above dependency


 - Find and fix the zope.traversing easy_install conflict.  I'll try
   to debug this.

 - Institute a policy that all distributions that are released to the
   cheeseshop should be installable via "easy_install".  IMO, if they
   are not installable this way, they should not be released to the
   cheeseshop, given the larger Python community's expectations.

 - Figure out why buildout can (apparently) qsuccesfully install
   dependencies of currently failing zope.* eggs while easy_install
   can't.  I probably won't be able to do this.

 - An automated test should ensure that easy_install does something
   reasonable with the latest release of each distribution.  If the
   test fails, a new release should be made, or the dependency bug
   tracked down and fixed.  My checker script could be made to do
   this, and I'd provide the work if someone told me which
   distributions to test, and how to maintain the list of
   distributions to test over time.

 - Ditch the idea of releasing separate distributions for each
   package in zope.app.  The individual eggs typically can't be used
   outside of a zope appserver installation (and if they can, they
   probably shouldn't be in "zope.app", they should be in "zope" or
   they should be their own top-level package), and the
   "namespaciness" of zope.app is suspect when it's unlikely that
   anyone who is not a Zope committer will release a distribution
   which makes use of that namespace package.  Their current
   overgranularity makes distributing them as separate eggs and
   releasing them to the cheeseshop a form of "cheeseshop pollution",
   especially given that so few of them can actually currently be
   installed using easy_install or "setup.py install".  If cheeseshop
   is going to continue to be used as the index, I'd suggest creating
   a zope.app top-level svn module with a single setup.py in
   containing all the packages that are meant to go into zope.app.
   Version the resulting "zope.app" distribution as necessary instead
   of versioning many more granular "zope.app.*" distros.  It's OK if
   some people don't use some of the functionality in the resulting
   egg, just toss everything in.  There is precedent here in the
   Paste distribution.  It has many submodules and does many things,
   but it comes in the form of a single egg.  Yes, you lose the
   ability to make a bugfix in one subpackage and release it, but
   IIRC the intent is to trim zope.app down anyway, pushing
   libraryish things out to top-level or zope.* packages.


- Who's in charge?  Whomever you might be, to what extent do you
  agree/disagree with the above suggestions?  If you agree with any,
  how can I help fix things?

- I'm unsure how anybody is able to install Zope 3 right now using
  eggs, unless there's some fundamental difference in the way
  easy_install resolves dependencies vs. buildout.  I have not looked
  at how Stephan's KGS works yet, though, so I'm sure I'm just
  missing some magic.

- We should consider fixing setuptools install to detect conflicts
  before attempting to install anything.  The current regime of "find
  conflicts halfway through an install" is IMO untenable in the long
  term for using eggs as a distribution mechanism.  This may mean a
  very invasive change to both the package index and the client
  software, though.

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