On Nov 15, 2007, at 9:35 AM, Tres Seaver wrote:
Chris is not advocating switching away from zc.buildout for the
*development* of the packages; he is arguing that we can't force
who *use* the packages to stop using the facilities supplied
If we want people outside the rather small group of core Zope
to *use* our software, we are going to need to accomodate their
expectations about how Python pacakges work. At a miniumum, any
which we release to the Cheeseshop should be testable and installable
using the "standard" tool used by nearly everyone: setuptools.
That means we need to work harder at a coule of things:
- Making sure the install-time dependencies in setup.py are accurate,
minimal, and themselves installable.
- Making sure that the tests can psss for somebody who is not a
core Zope developer, (and therefore who doesn't know about
zc.buildout, or want to). E.g.:
$ /path/to/python setup.py develop
$ /path/to/python setup.py test
Grrrrr. I find "setup.py test" to be really annoying as it requires
meta data that is available only to that command.
If there are dependencies which are needed to run the tests but
not merely to install the package, there should be a way to
Agreed. I'll note that there is a school of thought that I proposed
but am somewhat ambivalent about that anything required by tests
should also be required by install. This is in accordance with "fly
what you test, test what you fly." To the degree that we do this,
then there is no need for tests_require.
In setuptools, that is what 'tests_require' is
for; buildout doesn't (yet) have such a spelling (I think).
Ideally, buildout (really the testrunner recipe) should be able to
honor tests_require, but setuptools doesn't make this information
available to any other packages. :( (big frowny) Also, I believe
that more is required to get "setup.py test" to work. I'm unsure
what the details are.
When we do this, we tend to use a test extra. I suggest that when we
use a test extra, we also put the value in tests_require. I will
find this so distasteful that it will help me stick to the strategy
of just putting these dependencies in install_requires. :)
In order to succeed here, we are going to have to quit releasing
packages without more careful thought, testing, etc.
This should not be interpreted as criticism of the heroic and well-
meaning efforts to date. Despite that inevitable mistakes that were
made, I'm very appreciative of the efforts a few individual people
made to make the transition to eggs possible. I also apologize for
not providing more oversight.
Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org
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