Chris McDonough wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> I just realized the irony in this:
>> [Martijn spends a lot of time in trying to solve problems in our 
>> community, bothering to consult lots of people and writing up a document]
>> [Chris]
>>> I'm pretty sure a steering group and a rebranding of existing software is 
>>> not
>>> going to make us more effective.  Here's what I believe would make us more
>>> effective:
>> Bam, all of Martijn's proposals shot dead entirely.
>> [Chris, again]
>>> - discourage the contribution of stop energy (discourage
>>>   the utterances of "don't", "stop", "this is wrong",
>>>   "stop talking about this").
>> Chris, do you see any irony in this too?
> I really do appreciate the effort, apologies if my response seemed like stop
> energy.  To be honest, I'm just not very interested in talking about solving
> Zope "brand" issues anymore.  The brand is too large, and too diffuse, and
> controlled by an entity that is not very connected to the community anymore.
> Much of the time, the positive value of the brand is often outweighed by its
> negative value.
> IMO, we should just try to solve problems we actually have under whatever 
> brand
> the problem seems to fit under best that *doesn't* have the baggage of the 
> Zope
> name.  We have a good number of brands now (grok, repoze, plone).  These 
> brands
> *do* have leadership and structure and forward momentum.  Let's use it.

I don't think the confusion around Zope 3, the Zope framework and the 
consumers that happen to use zope.* packages is going to go away just 
because we ignore it. I totally agree with your pragmatic approach, but 
that's something quite different.

Zope *is* a project. There's enough activity on this list and enough 
people who commit to that you can't argue otherwise. And 
that project needs leadership, which is what Maritjn was really after 
solving, if I read him correctly. The naming issue is one part of that. 
Perhaps it would've been better to leave the specifics of naming out of 
the proposal and let the would-be steering group actually enact this 
type of change, but then again I don't think Martijn said anything that 
we don't all agree on, or that isn't already a "fact on the ground".


Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who
want to work with Plone. See

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