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Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Lennart Regebro wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 06:06, Gary Poster <gary.pos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> So, again, in sum, I propose that this discussion should simply be reduced
>>> to a rename to start with: Zope 3, as defined by the KGS -> Zope Toolkit.
>> As I understand it (but Martijn may correct me) the Zope Toolkit will
>> have it's own KGS which is significantly smaller than the Zope 3 KGS,
>> and not useable as an app server by itself. I would like to see a
>> renaming of the Zope 3 KGS, but not to Zope Toolkit, as it's a subset.
> 
> Yes, the Zope 3 KGS is a superset of the Zope Toolkit KGS.
> 
> I'll note that the Zope 3 KGS locks down more than is traditionally 
> considered "Zope 3 proper", such as z3c.form. I don't see a problem with 
> this though. Eventually I'd like us to develop a pattern of mixing and 
> matching KGSes, where you'd have the z3c.form KGS next to the Zope 
> Toolkit KGS.
> 
> My initial goal is to at least give some time for people to crystallize 
> a new concept of what "Zope 3" is in the light of the Zope Toolkit. 
> Gary's formulation reflects the idea that the Zope Toolkit has the role 
> to support people to build things (frameworks, apps) on it. Is Zope 3 as 
> people think of it really nothing more than the Zope toolkit? We'll be 
> finding out over time, I guess.
> 
> Whether "Zope 3", the "whatever remains when the Zope Toolkit is taken 
> away form it", should be renamed to something else is another 
> discussion. I'd just like to say that changing or dumping a name is hard 
> and fraught with risks. I'd to give "Zope 3" whatever it is a bit more 
> chance to organize itself and define itself. Perhaps it can't, and 
> that'll be fine too.
> 
> If "Zope 3" hasn't organized itself in, say, half a year, independently 
> from the Zope Toolkit, in a way like Zope 2 and Grok are organized, we 
> can conclude then that the concept of that "whole" is dead and take the 
> appropriate action. But perhaps history will go very differently.
> 
> I put a mark in my calendar for October to reconsider the future of the 
> name "Zope 3" then.

I would rather that we stop pushing the "Zope 3" brand now, and let the
interested folks come up with a new name for set(Z3KGS) - set(ZTKKGS).
The brand is actively harmful / confusing (it implies a replacement
strategy which hasn't been real since about 2003);  continuing to use it
in the present tense will undercut the other, more viable brands (Grok,
Zope2).  We can continue to refer to "Zope 3" in the past tense, to
explain how ZTK and the other brands relate to the bigger codebase, but
we should quit promoting it.


Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver          +1 540-429-0999          tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"    http://palladion.com
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