On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:11:20PM +0100, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Marius Gedminas <mar...@gedmin.as> wrote:
> > Ah, but then why The Official Zope 2.12 Installation Guide at
> > http://docs.zope.org/zope2/releases/2.12/INSTALL.html#buildout-instances
> > doesn't even mention plone.recipe.zope2instance?
> >
> > Should it?  The namespace of the recipe alone is scary -- I don't want
> > Plone, I just want Zope, cry bewildered newbie users!
> Zope 2 has newbie users? I hope for them it has not :)

You got me here ;)

I've only had to deal with Zope 2 when I helped random people/nonprofits
upgrade/maintain their existing Zope 2 sites.  (And by "helped" I mean
"had to do that for them").

As for myself, I've used Zope 2 in the past (*many* years ago, so things
like "how do you write a zope.conf from scratch" are flushed from my
mental caches), before all this newfangled buildout stuff and so on, and
I'd like to read docs to learn to use it.

> To be honest the reason that recipe isn't mentioned there, is because
> Chris Withers worked on that section and didn't feel like it belongs
> there. And nobody else cared a great deal.

I care.

What do y'all Zope-2-maintainer-people think about this patch?

Index: doc/INSTALL.rst
--- doc/INSTALL.rst     (revision 107265)
+++ doc/INSTALL.rst     (working copy)
@@ -136,11 +136,16 @@ command-line options, run the script wit
 Creating a buildout-based Zope Instance
-If you wish to use buildout to manage your Zope instance, then the
+If you wish to use buildout to manage your Zope instance, there are recipes
+like `plone.recipe.zope2instance`__ that automate everything.
+  __ http://pypi.python.org/pypi/plone.recipe.zope2instance
+If you're a power user and want to drop to the basics, then the
 instance is created as follows:
 * Create a directory for your instance. In this directory, create a
-  ``etc``, ``logs`` and ``var`` subdirectories.
+  ``etc``, ``log`` and ``var`` subdirectories.
 * Download the following file into your instance directory:
@@ -186,6 +191,8 @@ used.
    instancehome $INSTANCE
+   <rest of the stuff that goes into a zope.conf, e.g. databases and log 
 .. highlight:: bash
 * Now, run the following commands::

> Note that plone.recipe.zope2instance is actually in the collective,
> has a bug tracker on Launchpad and is licensed under the ZPL 2.1. The
> namespace plone just signals "written by the Plone community".

To those in the know, but let's not quibble.

> >> The current buildout docs are aimed at people who know how to set up
> >> Zope2 and don't want any help. Those are comfortable reading ZConfig
> >> definition files.
> >
> > Do you think that's how it should be, or would you like to improve the
> > situation for Zope 2.13 (or even 2.12.3)?
> I actually don't care about that specific piece of documentation.
> There's hardly ever new users to Zope 2 that'd need it.

I'll take that as a +0.

> > Do you think a command such as my suggested 'zopectl init' would be
> > convenient for both new and advanced users?
> zopectl init would be highly confusing. The "zopectl" script is
> usually associated with a particular Zope instance. That instance
> should have been created beforehand.

That's a good point.

> But what would your tool do, that mkzopeinstance isn't doing?

Exist, for one.  I don't have a bin/mkzopeinstance when I follow the
instructions here:

Marius Gedminas
http://pov.lt/ -- Zope 3 consulting and development

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